Out Of Control

[danisgoat]

Oh Bailey Bailey. Always up to something

I agree with the methods mentioned above regarding removing Bailey from the fun when she over reacts. The Uh oh, or settle, or something like that. Putting her in her crate is one way to do it, or having her in a down if she will settle that way.

She will get it, eventually. I promise

 

[corbinam]

Everyone has great ideas.

Here are my thoughts.

1. Keep in mind that Bailey now knows the majority of the equipment, and she is beginning to feel more confident (yay!) but now she has to learn that she only gets to do it when she's asked...not whenever she wants. She is in that transition phase, like Stacey said, where she's feeling comfortable, plus she's excited and driven.

2. I am sure that Bailey is frustrated with you as a green handler. However, even as you mature as a team, she has to be okay with you making mistakes. Don't let her become the victim--you guys work together. Sheltieche has a great idea of working on recall to heel. It will give her a job. Once she has shown you that she can maintain control at whatever speed you dictate, you can reward her by allowing her to take off (at your discretion). I am working on this with Lexi who likes to make her own course if I am not fast enough. The key is to not allow her to reward herself...so if she takes off for a tunnel that I am heading towards (let's say it IS next in the sequence), but I haven't told her to go tunnel yet, and she does and I praise her...I have essentially rewarded her because she thinks "You didn't tell me, so I guessed, and I got it right. You were wrong I was right" and she'll continue the cycle of choosing her own path.

3. This sort of goes with the others, but it's important to work on Bailey's self control both inside and outside the ring. She shouldn't snatch treats (put her in a sit and start lowering a treat to her, if she reaches, take it away, try again until she isn't reaching for it and you can almost place it in her mouth). Make her wait for EVERYTHING..going outside, putting her leash on (I know you probably do these things)

4. Right now I would try to exhaust all other options before completely removing Bailey from the area (by putting her in her crate). Try the down stay (don't do this when running...but while waiting her turn), try keeping her engaged with you by doing tricks and working for you outside the ring, etc...I say that because right now she is young...I wouldn't want you to squelch her enthusiasm for the sport, especially knowing how hard you have worked to make her as confident as she is on the field. If you stop and call her and put her in her crate, she will pick that up quickly and it will become a tough game of keep away.

5. So if she is off doing her own course, I would run in the other direction. Pretend like you are directing a dog into a tunnel or jump on the other side of the field (even praise the dog!). Bailey will eventually realize you're gone and that she missed something.

6. If you can, work shorter sequences when you go out and practice. If you must, run only 4 obstacles, give her a cookie, then go on. Don't feel like you have to do the exact sequence set out for you. Remember that the sequence isn't what you're teaching, it's other little details. For now, to keep her interested, don't feel bad if you have to stop and treat her a couple times before the sequence is over.

 

[labgirl]

Oh dear, I read about Bailey and I thought 'Cadbury'!

Cadbury did exactly what you described when he reached the two year mark and had figured out all the equipment. How many times have I stood screaming as he merrily does the tunnel twice, three times, four...

And then I twigged it. Firstly I was too nervous at the start of a course because I was thinking he would run off, so I was passing all this hyper energy to him from my movements and voice. Then I wasn't giving commands fast enough. He needed the direction for the next obstacle while he was doing the last, if I was a second too slow he would make his own choices - exactly as you describe Bailey and then I would get cross, call him back, get frustrated and it all fed into this cycle.

So first I learned to take it a little less seriouslyand to calm down (pretty hard for me!!), I also went back to short sequences, maybe only three obstacles and then I learnt the ultimate, the 'if you are going to be like that I am leaving' walk.

If Cadbury went into 'silly buggers' mode, then I just left the course. (bearing in mind our areas our fenced and if Cadbury was disturbing another dog I wouldn't do that). Whenever I do that Cadbury just turns tail and comes running back, that works better than all the commands in the world!

It also gets better with age. They grow up, they mature, they stop being so temperamental

Hey, maybe Cadbury's great great grandad was a sheltie?

 

[take4roll10]

Everyone has great ideas.

Here are my thoughts.

1. Keep in mind that Bailey now knows the majority of the equipment, and she is beginning to feel more confident (yay!) but now she has to learn that she only gets to do it when she's asked...not whenever she wants. She is in that transition phase, like Stacey said, where she's feeling comfortable, plus she's excited and driven.

2. I am sure that Bailey is frustrated with you as a green handler. However, even as you mature as a team, she has to be okay with you making mistakes. Don't let her become the victim--you guys work together. Sheltieche has a great idea of working on recall to heel. It will give her a job. Once she has shown you that she can maintain control at whatever speed you dictate, you can reward her by allowing her to take off (at your discretion). I am working on this with Lexi who likes to make her own course if I am not fast enough. The key is to not allow her to reward herself...so if she takes off for a tunnel that I am heading towards (let's say it IS next in the sequence), but I haven't told her to go tunnel yet, and she does and I praise her...I have essentially rewarded her because she thinks "You didn't tell me, so I guessed, and I got it right. You were wrong I was right" and she'll continue the cycle of choosing her own path.

3. This sort of goes with the others, but it's important to work on Bailey's self control both inside and outside the ring. She shouldn't snatch treats (put her in a sit and start lowering a treat to her, if she reaches, take it away, try again until she isn't reaching for it and you can almost place it in her mouth). Make her wait for EVERYTHING..going outside, putting her leash on (I know you probably do these things)

4. Right now I would try to exhaust all other options before completely removing Bailey from the area (by putting her in her crate). Try the down stay (don't do this when running...but while waiting her turn), try keeping her engaged with you by doing tricks and working for you outside the ring, etc...I say that because right now she is young...I wouldn't want you to squelch her enthusiasm for the sport, especially knowing how hard you have worked to make her as confident as she is on the field. If you stop and call her and put her in her crate, she will pick that up quickly and it will become a tough game of keep away.

5. So if she is off doing her own course, I would run in the other direction. Pretend like you are directing a dog into a tunnel or jump on the other side of the field (even praise the dog!). Bailey will eventually realize you're gone and that she missed something.

6. If you can, work shorter sequences when you go out and practice. If you must, run only 4 obstacles, give her a cookie, then go on. Don't feel like you have to do the exact sequence set out for you. Remember that the sequence isn't what you're teaching, it's other little details. For now, to keep her interested, don't feel bad if you have to stop and treat her a couple times before the sequence is over.

Excellent advice as always Ashley!

Oh dear, I read about Bailey and I thought 'Cadbury'!

Cadbury did exactly what you described when he reached the two year mark and had figured out all the equipment. How many times have I stood screaming as he merrily does the tunnel twice, three times, four...

And then I twigged it. Firstly I was too nervous at the start of a course because I was thinking he would run off, so I was passing all this hyper energy to him from my movements and voice. Then I wasn't giving commands fast enough. He needed the direction for the next obstacle while he was doing the last, if I was a second too slow he would make his own choices - exactly as you describe Bailey and then I would get cross, call him back, get frustrated and it all fed into this cycle.

So first I learned to take it a little less seriouslyand to calm down (pretty hard for me!!), I also went back to short sequences, maybe only three obstacles and then I learnt the ultimate, the 'if you are going to be like that I am leaving' walk.

If Cadbury went into 'silly buggers' mode, then I just left the course. (bearing in mind our areas our fenced and if Cadbury was disturbing another dog I wouldn't do that). Whenever I do that Cadbury just turns tail and comes running back, that works better than all the commands in the world!

It also gets better with age. They grow up, they mature, they stop being so temperamental

Hey, maybe Cadbury's great great grandad was a sheltie?

Maybe Bailey was a chocolate lab in a past life?

Ok, so I'm going to email my trainer and hopefully schedule some private time before next week's class. I'm also going to do what you said and just walk off the course. Our field is in the process of getting new grass, so we are training indoors right now. Bailey also has no interest in the other dogs in our class, so I can try walking away when she goes nuts. It might not work though, because she might just walk around looking for treats, but it's worth a try.

A highly intelligent, driven, bossy, little girl makes one crazy sheltie!

 

[ortegah]

She will get a long walk in the morning before work, then a dog walker will come by mid day for a 20 minute walk. When I come home from work, she'll get a another long walk if it's nice out and/or some mental exercise. Plus, we'll have an agility class once a week. So exercise wise, I think she'll be fine. I'm more worried about her reactive barking in the apartment and during walks. I assume the dogwalker will refuse to walk her, if she goes nuts during their walks. She's such a mess.



I think I may try this. If she acts up, she'll go in the crate. My only worry is, if I use a recall to get her back, she may stop responding to "come" because she'll realize whenever I call her, she goes in her crate.

You can also try just ignoring the behavior rather than using a word to call her back. I wouldn't use your come command for this. I normally just say Uh Oh, stand there and when you're able to grab her up and put her away. It may take a bit of creativity to get her back to you.

 

[Diana]

I think Bailey and Buffy were separated at birth. They're the same age, and they have had pretty much all of the same developmental issues!

Right now, Buffy's having the same issue with "come" that you describe with Bailey and agility. She knows the meaning of the word "come," but she just chooses to disobey. (I posted about this in another thread.)

I do think some of this is having a drive-y young dog in the midst of the "terrible twos," but that's not all of it. Some of it is just their personalities and them being little princesses that know they are cute and beautiful.

I tried agility with Buffy at 8 months and she honestly couldn't handle it. She was doing some of the same things you describe with Bailey. Also, I happened to end up with a bad agility club for me and I didn't find it enjoyable.

I was "too green" a handler for Buffy, and I did not appreciate the agility people giving me tips. One of the things I have noticed about many agility classes is that they train the dog when they really need to train the handler.

Our puppy class trainer was ridiculously wonderful, and as a result, I am now spoiled for any other class, including agility and dog therapy. Luckily, I'm taking another class from that trainer soon... "Outward Hound." And I'm going to try and get Buffy certified with Delta, but we're not there yet.

The other thing that helped me was hanging out with Markley, our neighbor dog. He's a cockapoo, a little younger than Buffy, and he is such a boy.... really eager to please, none of the Sheltie reserve, and he and Buffy play adorably together.

It was so hard for me to find a good playmate for Buffy. She's picky, and I guess I am too. (I heart Markley's owners, who live in our building.) So whenever I am getting irritated with Buffy, I just go play with Markley and it's awesome.

The other thing that I have been doing is NILIF. I'm sure you're already doing this, but it's worth a refresher when the dogs are this age.

 

[Crouton]

Crouton is sometimes naughty in class too. We are in class the other day and the teacher is setting up the course, I put her in a down/stay and she decides she's tired of waiting and speeds off and makes up her own run. She does a few hurdles, a tunnel and ends it all with dogwalk. Meanwhile the class is laughing and I'm chasing her.

 

[take4roll10]

I think Bailey and Buffy were separated at birth. They're the same age, and they have had pretty much all of the same developmental issues!

Right now, Buffy's having the same issue with "come" that you describe with Bailey and agility. She knows the meaning of the word "come," but she just chooses to disobey. (I posted about this in another thread.)

I do think some of this is having a drive-y young dog in the midst of the "terrible twos," but that's not all of it. Some of it is just their personalities and them being little princesses that know they are cute and beautiful.

I tried agility with Buffy at 8 months and she honestly couldn't handle it. She was doing some of the same things you describe with Bailey. Also, I happened to end up with a bad agility club for me and I didn't find it enjoyable.

I was "too green" a handler for Buffy, and I did not appreciate the agility people giving me tips. One of the things I have noticed about many agility classes is that they train the dog when they really need to train the handler.

Our puppy class trainer was ridiculously wonderful, and as a result, I am now spoiled for any other class, including agility and dog therapy. Luckily, I'm taking another class from that trainer soon... "Outward Hound." And I'm going to try and get Buffy certified with Delta, but we're not there yet.

The other thing that helped me was hanging out with Markley, our neighbor dog. He's a cockapoo, a little younger than Buffy, and he is such a boy.... really eager to please, none of the Sheltie reserve, and he and Buffy play adorably together.

It was so hard for me to find a good playmate for Buffy. She's picky, and I guess I am too. (I heart Markley's owners, who live in our building.) So whenever I am getting irritated with Buffy, I just go play with Markley and it's awesome.

The other thing that I have been doing is NILIF. I'm sure you're already doing this, but it's worth a refresher when the dogs are this age.

I do NILIF, but I'm starting to be a little stricter. I always made her sit and stay when I opened the front door before our walk, but now I'm making her sit when I put her leash on too. I'm also making her sit before she goes into the yard. I used to only do it with the front door. When we play fetch, I only made her sit when she first brought me her ball. Now she has to sit every 5 or 6 times, she brings it back. Also, when she gets demanding and starts barking during play time, play time ends.

I agree with you that some of it is because she is a young drive-y dog and some of it is just her personality. She has always been a little brat, who talked back to me. And has always been a little ADD.

I just set up a 30 minute private lesson with one of the trainers in my club. Hopefully, we can tackle this issue.

 

[take4roll10]

We had our private lesson today. It went well and I do believe that we got a lot more out of the private lessons than we do classes. Bailey really needed that one on one time. I learned that Bailey is an evil genius. My trainer said that she's the smartest sheltie she's ever worked with and smarter than most of the border collies. She's never seen a sheltie or BC try to figure out things the way Bailey does. How fantastic for me....

We did some box work because I need to work on turns. So my homework for this week is to work on sending Bailey over a jump and turning back to me.

When Bailey threw one of her temper tantrums, I just turned around and walked away and then Bailey stopped. So, that was a success!

 

[Justicemom]

We had our private lesson today. It went well and I do believe that we got a lot more out of the private lessons than we do classes. Bailey really needed that one on one time. I learned that Bailey is an evil genius. My trainer said that she's the smartest sheltie she's ever worked with and smarter than most of the border collies. She's never seen a sheltie or BC try to figure out things the way Bailey does. How fantastic for me....

We did some box work because I need to work on turns. So my homework for this week is to work on sending Bailey over a jump and turning back to me.

When Bailey threw one of her temper tantrums, I just turned around and walked away and then Bailey stopped. So, that was a success!

How exciting for you to have a evil sheltie genius.

I have often said that Ember is possibly the smartest dog I have ever own which when you consider that I own Justice is saying something. I have found the walk away technique works well for Ember too. Ember rarely has a melt down these days.

Just think what a good trainer your bratty girl will make you.