Pack dynamics question

M

Mom2Melli

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I have a question . . . Melli is older, chubby, and has been great with the Cubby. He, however, is rough on her. I mean, her tail is thinned because he pulls on it. She puts him in his place sometimes and allows rough housing. However, now Cubby really plays hard with my 4 year old Shay. I mean it rough and tumble. Shay puts him in his place but has a high thresh hold. Melli & Shay get along better than they did before, but sometimes they both gang up on her.

On one hand, I feel like sending Melli to my Mom's for a week might be a nice break for Melli. She knows Mom, she knows her home. Nothing too shocking but it would be a change.

However, on the other hand I am afraid Melli will LOVE the break and while she is gone the pup and Shay will change the dynamics. I worry that when I bring Melli back she will realize she hates it here and / or no longer fit into the dynamic.

Question is . . . is it better to give her a break or continue letting the dynamic evolve with her part of it? Or leading it as the case may be?
 
Cara,

If it was me I would leave it alone. Let them work it out with some supervision of course. Remember, they are smarter than we are most of the time. LOL
 
In my experience, dogs will choose their own alpha in the pack, and it's not always the one we think it should be! I've been surprised several times in my changing dynamic here with the dog that emerges as the leader. Sometimes, one of them -- like a Cubby -- will want to be the alpha and can wear the others down. But most often, the older, wiser dogs win out if you let things develop -- safely, of course.

Tail pulling is a favorite pastime here too, or as we call it, "tail surfing" where one hangs on the other running around the yard. It's the bane of my existence with the show dogs who do not need to lose tail hair!

In our household, Ruffles has campaigned to be the pack leader even from a young age. She's persistent, energetic and stubborn. Pixie, who is the least mobile, oldest and most infirm of the group, is not giving up the throne. Ruffles knows better than to take on Pixie....who never does anything to her other than give her The Look. Ruffles respects The Look!

I'd let events develop naturally for now. Perhaps give Melli a spot she can retreat to if things get too hectic. Months ago, we put an extra crate in our family room that was going to be used for Ruffles. Checkers and Pixie immediately took it over as their safe spot when they want some peace. Sometimes Ruffles would invade when they're inside to torment them but that didn't go well for her and she quickly gave it up. We were sure we'd be rid of the crate by now, but Hubby jokes that it will be a permanent fixture in the room forever and we should just put a plant on it. We couldn't take it away from the older dogs so it lives in the room, door open, and someone is always in it. Maybe that might work for Melli.

And remember, Cubby will grow up and mellow! Some day... :hide
 
I agree with Ann. My three sort it out themselves. Emma, the oldest, the first in the house, is definitely top dog. Since she turned five in September, it has become more apparent. She never used to go after Liam, now she does, barking, yipping, snapping, the LOOK, the nips. He gets a shocked look on his face at times because she was not like this before. Liam gets along with both the girls - he can be such a big goof at time, but is the most loving of all of them. He will be 5 in a couple of months and is finally growing up some. Natalie - she is the typical little sister, challenging both. The two younger ones can play really really rough - putting each other down, pulling the tails. When Lady Emma lowers herself to play with them, it is more a chase and gang up on Liam time. She tolerates Natalie, grumbles when she gets too close if she wants space, give the LOOK if Natalie is in her spot on the bed.

Hopefully it will sort itself out, and like Ann says, the youngster will grow up....some day....maybe....if you're lucky.
 
Thanks for the info.

Let me point out that this is not about dynamics. They are actually quite good. Melli leads, then Shay, then the pup. That is reversing but Shay is fine.

My question is more along the lines of I have a dynamic, I think Melli needs a break because she is old and sore. However, I am afraid that if I remove her from the dynamic and try to reinsert her there may be problems fitting her back in.

You think?
 
Mom2Melli said:
Thanks for the info.

Let me point out that this is not about dynamics. They are actually quite good. Melli leads, then Shay, then the pup. That is reversing but Shay is fine.

My question is more along the lines of I have a dynamic, I think Melli needs a break because she is old and sore. However, I am afraid that if I remove her from the dynamic and try to reinsert her there may be problems fitting her back in.

You think?
Click to expand...

My Diva came and went from my house for months at a time for puppies or showing. When she came back nothing changed it was like she never left. Ember and Diva did have the occasional issue they had that love hate relationship but that was regardless of time absent.
 
I agree with Dr. Shelli. As long as nothing changes in your numbers while Melli is gone it will likely be the same when she returns. The only time I found absence to create a problem was when Checkers left to have puppies and when she returned, we had added Lacey, who was extremely needy and shy. That threw the dynamic off in our house for months and confused Checkers who became aloof and unsure of where she fit in.
 
That is good to know. She seems OK, not hiding, more aggressive, having a harder time getting up or using the stairs. Maybe the pup is not that big a deal to her. I need to observe her this week and decide.
 
I agree that the dynamic will not change if Melli leaves and comes back. As someone who works at a dog day care and sees dogs come and go and come again, a dog can be gone for two months, come back, and it will be just as it always was. Rarely does any dynamic, even between 140 dogs, ever truly change. Only an extremely long time away ever changes up a dog's fit in the pack, and even then they usually go right back to where they were by the end of the day. The dogs remember each other, link up (play with) the same dogs week in and week out, even with weeks in between seeing each other, and the pecking order remains very consistent.
 
Give Melli a Vacation

If she's sore, IMHO she needs a break from the Prince's attentions. We had an older Sheltie and rescued a young beagle. Belle got tired of having to put him in his place, so she had a two week vacation with a neighbor. When she returned, she had the energy to manage him and things worked out.

I hope all works out well with your gang.
 
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