Question on colors

Deb118 · Feb 4, 2009

OntarioSheltie said:
I like that the ad specifically says 'champion bloodlines: yes'

I also notice there's also been no mention of whether or not the double merles are deaf?

Yes, on the champion blood lines because there ARE. Opps... sorry.... NO they are NOT deaf.

jazzyfizzle · Feb 4, 2009

Deb,

Can you understand that as science knows it, it is not genetically possible for Chopper to have sired the sable puppies in your litter? Are you understanding this?

How do you feel about that? Do you feel a sense of responsibility to the breed, to truly know who the sire/sires are?

S.

Deb118 · Feb 4, 2009

Narmowen said:
That's just horrible. Not only lying to the AKC, but lying to the buyers as well.

It's because of reasons like this (and people like this) that brindle showed up as a Sheltie color...

I did not lie to the AKC

Narmowen · Feb 4, 2009

Deb118 said:
I did not lie to the AKC

Yes, you did. The two dogs you have listed as the parents CANNOT produce sable puppies. Cannot. It's impossible. Therefore, you lied to the AKC. And to all of the people that are contacting you about buying the puppies. It's people like you that make me hate "purebred" dogs.

Narmowen · Feb 4, 2009

jazzyfizzle said:
Deb,

Can you understand that as science knows it, it is not genetically possible for Chopper to have sired the sable puppies in your litter? Are you understanding this?

How do you feel about that? Do you feel a sense of responsibility to the breed, to truly know who the sire/sires are?

S.

I'm guessing that she doesn't care. She might understand, but she doesn't care. She's all about the 600 per puppy.

No sense of responsibility. If there was, with this amount of question, she'd get them DNA tested like we said. Puppies and sire would confirm it.

jazzyfizzle · Feb 4, 2009

I think you are so right

Lightplum · Feb 4, 2009

HopeShelties said:
Yes, I hate to think I'd end up with them in something of mines pedigrees down the road. It's already hard enough to predict what you're going to end up with without another breed coming into play. This isn't just affecting her, it's affecting each of us as breeders.
What would happen if down the road it was discovered these pups sire was incorrect, and people had bred a litter or two out of the ones being sold now? These original pups would have their papers yanked, and then the pups they produced would, and so on. There would be a lot of money lost, and a lot of heartbreak.
It happened in the Morgan horse world recently... a whole bunch of very expensive show horses had their papers yanked because of a Saddlebred being the parent of one stud, and not an actual Morgan horse. I can only imagine how devastating that was.
Please, let's all breed responsibly. Accidents do happen, and that's fully understandable. The problem is that it's not being taken care of.

Deb118 said:
Yes, on the chamion blood lines because there ARE. Opps... sorry.... NO they are NOT deaf.

This whole situation is just sad :no:

Obviously its just about the cash and not the betterment of the breed as a whole.

PS for future reference not sure what conformation show line they were in but in the AKC its CHAMPION Line, you may want to change your listing.

Deb118 · Feb 4, 2009

Narmowen said:
A cryptic merle will/can look like a regular sable or tri color (or bi color), so she's definitely a cryptic merle, because those puppies ARE double dilutes. Too much white in the right places for them to be just CHW's. They could be double dilute CHW's.

In other words, your friends came up with the same stuff that's being discussed here.

So... why have you changed your mind?

Deb118 · Feb 4, 2009

jazzyfizzle said:
I went through the Anthro site-

Listed the mother as a 'Cryptic merle' (tri) and the sire as a bi-blue

The ONLY possible offpsring are- Blue merle, tri (bi factored) and double merle

-So even saying the mother is a cryptic- there is no accountability for 4 out of 5 puppies being sable.

the ad is - $600, listed as regisistered, and listed as sable CHW

Quote Deb118:

I think I'm going to make a fortune off of these genetic miracle puppies!!!! Yahooo!!!!!

It was sarcasm!!!

People, this says it all in a nutshell. Makes me sick, and I think we need to spread the word far and wide amongst the sheltie community.

It was sarcasm!!! :lol:

Narmowen · Feb 4, 2009

Deb118 said:
So... why have you changed your mind?

About what? She's definitely a cryptic blue merle. In that quote, all I said was that she's a cryptic merle. Nothing about her base color. I hadn't seen a picture of her to rule out sable and white, but with the pictures that are up in the album, she's definitely NOT a sable and white. Which means that the sire that you're claiming is the sire isn't.

So what have I changed my mind about?