Question on NOW! food and needing a fish oil supplement

And that's how to get people to nod thier heads, and say "uh-huh", then ignore everything you say. First, insult them, then, offer only a single solution to the problem.

What are you selling?
 
And that's how to get people to nod thier heads, and say "uh-huh", then ignore everything you say. First, insult them, then, offer only a single solution to the problem.

I have to second Rachel's sentiment here, HolisticFurMom. Everyone here does the best they can within their means and time. If you are really trying to help people, please deliver your suggestions and information in a tone with respect and courtesy, rather than as someone whose way is the only way.
 
Ideally, you could find a food with less carbs, for instance, the food I feed my cat, the canned version has 1% carbs! It doesn't have enough proteins or fats so we add in what we can get her to eat to balance it, but it's hard when the carb overload to take it away.[/FONT]

Well of course wet food shows less carbs, it's probably 50% water.

I question the numbers you present. How much food do you have to feed to get to 49% protein in the whole diet, when most meats are less than 20% protein, as fed (water inclusive).

Many of us here feed from the Orijen/Arcana lines, and I don't know that I've heard many complaints. I have easily transitioned several rescues and visiting dogs to it. I know many, many dogs that are fed this food without issue. It seems to be better tolerated than Innova's line of high protein, grain free foods.
 
Well of course wet food shows less carbs, it's probably 50% water.

Yes, which is why you subtract the moisture content before doing the math, that's all in the article I posted if you look over it, you can do all the math yourself. If you're unsure of the numbers, you can e-mail your pet food company yourself for their breakdown. There's probably considerably more fat in most pet foods when listed on the back, you'll see it says "min." So this is just based off the information we're given, who knows what the actual amounts are... again, check the numbers yourself or e-mail if you don't agree with my math.

You have to remember the meat we're eating now is nothing like what ancestral dogs ate, which is why it's figured ancestral dogs ate the high amount of protein. Our ancestor dogs ate wild meat, not factory-farmed meat. If you don't believe how much protein you loose when you confine an animal and feed it an incorrect diet, google the protein/fat of a wild duck to a farmed duck and you'll see. We can never feed our dogs who they've evolved to eat because if you think about it, things will never be like they were then. Factory-farming has changed everything and unless you're able to feed a diet of all wild-prey, even grass-fed has less protein/more fat, then I believe it needs to be tweaked a bit. The fat content of a chicken from a factory farm is considerably different than that of a free-range, so something has to be done to offset the imbalance or the animals are getting way too much fat, way too little protein.

Also, this post wasn't meant to be offensive. It's to show you how dog food really works, and how to break down the numbers on the side to your advantage. It's very easy to figure out how many carbs are in your food, for example, take the moisture, protein, fat, ash, and fiber and subtract from 100; whatever that amount is your carbs in the food.

Again, don't take offense, learn. I think Acana is a great food, as long as you're adding some real food to go along with it; whatever you think that needs to be. Our animals can't solely derive everything they need from a bag of processed foods. Sure they can keep from being deficient but they don't get the amino acids found only in food that hasn't been heated to the temperatures the ingredients in kibble. Kibble isn't a bad thing in and of itself, it's fine, it works and works well for most dogs. But if you're dog is tired all the time, or itchy, or something it helps to look at the balance of fats/carbs/protein in your food you're feeding and make sure it meets his needs. For instance, you're aiming for a lower fat food but in fact you're feeding a food that's higher in fat than both Orijen and Acana. So with the way they put stuff on the bag, it's important to know how to break it down for when our animals have more specific needs. If you don't believe my math, perhaps e-mail your dog food company and say May I have the breakdown of fat/protein/carbs per 1,000 calories....If you ask for it, I'd imagine they'd give it to you. You can determine the carb content on your own with the ingredients.


So again, it wasn't meant to be offensive, it's meant to show you that companies can sometimes make it difficult to find out the real levels in the food, and if you really need to know the level of fat for the health of your dog, I would suggest emailing and asking how many calories per 1,000 are from fat.
 
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oh, let me correct myself, I didn't mean to write you're feeding a food equal to orijen/acana in terms of the fat percentage. I meant to say the fat levels in Now! senior are comparable to the fat levels in Beneful (here's the back of beneful regular, compare it to your bag-- http://www.beneful.com/Products/Dry-Dog-Food/Original/) As do the protein, beneful has more protein actually in their regular version. They don't have a senior version I could find.

If you look, and while they are better carbs, Now! has more carbs! But we all know carbs shouldn't be that much of a % more than the protein and in you're case it's 27% protein per 1,000 calorie to 45% carbs per 1,000 calorie. Acana has 28% protein per 1,000 calories and 27% protein from carbs; that's much more evened out. I don't think 27% of carbs per 1,000 calories as bad at all and probably considerably lower than most you'll find.

I feel like dogs have a problem with Orijen because the fat and protein levels per 1,000 calorie are equal, and they shouldn't be equal. So my opinion is that imbalances causes issues. A dog would never eat an animal in the wild that had equal protein/fat levels.

You'd never know this if you didn't break it down because carbs aren't listed on a bag of dog food. You can go to Now!'s website, or look at your bag and take the ingredients and subtract the protein, fat, ash, fiber, moisture and get the carb content. Then you can go to beneful's website and look at their back and do the same. Ash is typically 8% if it's not listed. Again, there's no way you'd know this so it's no judging, it's just dog food companies know how to make their products look a lot better than they are!
 
I question the numbers you present. How much food do you have to feed to get to 49% protein in the whole diet, when most meats are less than 20% protein, as fed (water inclusive).

I'm not sure what raw diet you're feeding but I order my dog's food each month and it varies but I went to nutritiondata's website and entered in his monthly food which is as follows: He's 40 lbs.

15lbs of Green Tripe
4 Whole Quail
5lbs Lamb Heart
4lbs Bison Heart
4lbs of duck
2lbs of pork heart
2lbs of beef liver
1lb pancreas
4 Bunny heads- but I couldn't list them.

My break down was 45% protein and and 54% fat --so not completely right-on but you see the protein over a month, which I feed by the month, is about 45%... Orijen, a high protein food, has 34%. My dog is a senior, in great shape, great weight and never had a dental. His body definition is always noted on when he is out in public. So a dog can thrive on a high protein/high fat diet. I usually feed whole prey so I can't break it down like this since they don't have whole animals on there. My dog, minus this month because of the holidays, eats all whole prey, minus tripe/heart so I don't worry that much about the balance since it's what I feel is complete, but from these numbers you can see a raw diet can easily be "off" just like kibble.
 
Thanks Danisgoat!

Yes, this is far beyond commercial food, though I'm sure the discussion opened up peoples eyes to other possibilities.

Now what was the original discussion again????
 
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Now what was the original discussion again????

Good question, Barb!

Here is the original post:

Hi all!

After TOTW scare and a scary liver enzyme issue - which my pup is all better from now :winkgrin: yay! - I switched Frankie, per your wonderful help and suggestions to NOW! - lower protein too - and he seems to be doing great on it. However, I have noticed that his coat is not quite as shiny as it was on TOTW and his skin is a bit dry. While it could be the cold air now that winter is coming, I was wondering if anyone else feeding NOW! has had this coat/skin issue come up and if you might suggest supplementing with a fish oil or flax? I did this before when Frankie was eating another brand and it turned out he was getting too much omegas! Any help would be so appreciated! :pop

Thank you!
 
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