Running Dog Walk

Running Dogwalk

I thought chicken camp was $1k and you get to eat to the chicken. :winkgrin:

Add me to the $5k-no-way camp. If others want to do that, it's up to them, but I wouldn't even do it for $1k. SG is fine, but I'm with Stacey in wondering of this level of marketing 'genius' is really good for agility.

We get to eat the chicken?LOL I could not have said it any better than Stacey or Margaret!!!:cool:
 
I was just going to pose this question...if you were rich (if $5000 weren't an issue), would you do it then?

oh boy, what I would do... I am forever student so I would go to India with John Rogerson for 21 day dog training camp, then visit Canada Say Yes for Advances in dog training/ former lurer anonymous/ and puppy camp. Visit Slovenia for Silvia Trkman summer camp. Of course Bob Bailey chicken camp in Sweden will be in order... would love visiting Fanny Gott in Sweden as well...
Here in US I would go to Karen Pryor Clicker expo, Denise Fenzi obedience, Kathy Sdao and Ken Ramirez lectures on classical and operant conditioning...
and just have fun with my dogs in general taking as many classes I could fit into my rich idle life:lol:
 
agility is already expensive as it is but the degree to which we individually choose to put into our addiction is an individual choice.
If someone else wants to spend $5k on a RC program, or $5k into a complete set of equipment, or $5k into seminars, classes, DVD's etc, or $5k into purchasing the "perfect" dog for agility, or $5k into vet care then that is their choice and none of my business.
Some of us have limited resources whether its $ or training space or access to needed instruction. We all make our own choices and work with what we have.
While it is understandable that there has been concerns voiced regarding exploitation, I find it interesting that some of the more established handlers currently at or near the top of our sport are the ones that have raised their concerns about the direction of the sport they don't want to see where $ buys success yet they are also more likely to have spent many more $'s themselves to get where they are.
I'm not opposed to the evolution of the sport either but it sure would be nice if at the national level there was a recognition of the split between the pros who take in $'s for a living and those of us in the sport not to make $'s.
e.g. If the top 3 or 4 placings at the national level are all "pros" but 5th place is a regular team then recognizing that team as 1st in the "amateur" status would be nice.
 
No. If I'm going to pay $5k, I would expect a whole lot more! Not just for running dog walk with so little practical training with the trainer.

I think that is my issue with it, as well.

Sealtainn is right. If I want to spend that kind of money on dogwalk training, that's my business.

I just think that for $5000, I'd want more than that. Maybe if i lived in Canada near Susan Garrett and could train with her regularly, it would be worth considering.

(And I don't have that kind of money so the argument for me is moot!)
 
I'm with Hopeshelties on this one. There are a whole lot of issues this raises about the sport beyond whether its a good thing for people with money.

Agility is an amateur sport - there might be people at the top who are professional trainers, but doing agility isn't a profession like human sports or horse racing. So does a person need to fork out cash to do well? If that's the case it starts being an elitist sport. That is already happening, and it does become demoralising for the person without the cash who never gets anywhere because they can't pay for the training.

So it is time to have a professional type class and amateur class in agility? A Crufts and general type arrangement. There are divisions in flyball and that works well. The people who run Border Collies to win can compete amongst themselves for the 'elite' classes and the rest of us can run on a more level playing field.

Btw - I don't think SG is a legend, obviously she is admired and has some valuable advice. But then I admire the people who are able to train a Chinese Crested or Pug or a British Bulldog to do dog sports - now that takes stamina and creativity.
 
No. If I'm going to pay $5k, I would expect a whole lot more! Not just for running dog walk with so little practical training with the trainer.
umm, it is a little bit more:yes:
My understanding that price was set that way for a reason. Sure, "Money isn't the most important thing in life, but it's reasonably close to oxygen on the "gotta have it" scale" as Zig Zagler says. But it is a bit more in the price. It never meant to be a course for everyone. I think SG did not want to have 5000 applicants, this type of price is about commitment and your personal investment. Because as Hopeshelties pointed, it does not matter how brilliant teacher is it matters how brilliant you are and how capable you are of learning. Because it is about small boring things like placement of reinforcement, timing, mechanics etc... So price is also a way of SG asking question " are you willing to let me teach you and invest/ immerse in my teaching?" There would be few people who REALLY want to commit to invest on that level/ and I am talking NOT ONLY about monetary investment/ so I think agility world is safe on that account:yes:
 
.

Btw - I don't think SG is a legend, obviously she is admired and has some valuable advice. But then I admire the people who are able to train a Chinese Crested or Pug or a British Bulldog to do dog sports - now that takes stamina and creativity.

I hope SG will release her story about JTR to public because it is well worth it. She recently published for recallers her actual record keeping journal from 1998 about a JTR who was raised in the kennel/ breeder kept him hoping for conformation/ until he was 10 months old, had little exposure to outside world, was evaluated by few prospective homes and given up by everybody because he had no drive for toys or food, would pee in the house if you just come near, was sensitive to sounds, touch and movement. He was considered to be sweet but dull puppy. Journal is actual record keeping with dates and times of training sessions, what happened during the session, etc. I was laughing and crying reading note that a week later pup finally picked up !@#$ ball and she never worked so hard to create such simple behavior before. She had complete transformation within 2 weeks and 5 weeks later dog was successfully adopted with great potential to flyball and he went to be one of the top flyball dogs in history. Sure hope this will become avail for everyone to read.
 
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Running Dogwalk

I heard of the story when one of the well trained dog/ think world team member dog/ started to refuse down on the table and whatever other trainers tried nobody could come up with reliable way to fix it. So the dog was shipped to SG to see if she can figure it out. She sure fixed it. What she did is asked a UPS man who drives road near her training field regularly to engage in dog training with favorite toy ball, and ask for a down and if dog did not, driver would drive away with that much beloved ball. Seeing that ball driving away was something that broke whatever barriers were created in dog's mind. Talk about creating a legend- who else can come up with such bizzare ways of figuring out how to solve a problem.
Legend she is not good trainer she is.I have talked to people who have taken her seminars(world team people) some liked her some didn't.I heard she was nasty and not overly friendly but also heard she was"Fabulous".Again what works for some people may not work for others.Like I said before I am not a huge SG fan and would never pay $5,000 to any trainer.If I have to pay that kind of money to play agility then I guess agility is not for me.I like winning just as much as the next person .:winkgrin:
 
One thing I dislike is the elitist attitude this has. Only the wealthy are good enough to learn my rc method!
Money and dedication don't automatically go together. They are seperate... I know plenty of wealthy people who aren't particularly dedicated. One girl wouldn't even come out to ride her extremely nice show horse if something better came up. Always drove me mad watching a horse of that caliber go to waste, and how someone could spend that type of money on a nice horse to not put in the time to learn to ride and show him properly. I also know plenty of people who give up other things they could have just so they can train their dogs and trial, and work very, very hard.
I don't think it is so much about finding the best and weeding people out if they aren't serious by asking them to pay 5k... After all, the girl I mention had a 100k horse... it was nothing for her to drop that kind of money and not give two thoughts to him just being wasted by her lack of interest. He was just another thing she could afford. I think it really comes down to marketing. What better way is there to get her even more business of people willing to spend 5k than to pick wealthy people who will be out trialing every weekend because they have the money? They will be out exposing others with that type of money to her small circle of people able to benefit from her training method.
It was said best by a marketing person who did some business for a stable I used to assistant train at. It isn't the small people we really want to cater to. We want to get everyone in the door, and then focus on the ones with the money to go on and buy an expensive show horse (commission, or direct sale from the stable), put it in full training (big money, as opposed to $30 a week for a lesson), and take their horses to shows with us ($350-$1500 per show). Not all stables operate like this, but at a lot of them, there isn't a place for the small person.
I don't want to see this sport go down that path. Only the wealthy succeed. Only the wealthy are welcome. The Saddlebred world is one of the most elitist sports I participated in. The amateur owner trainer wasn't welcome. Trainers didn't want those who weren't lining their pockets at the shows, taking away their clients placements, making them look less credible because someone was able to do it on their own without a big name trainer. There is no place for the less expensive horse. Here, even at the B and C shows, the big name horses showed up. Average 3 gaited horses were dropped down to be country pleasure horses for an easy win. True country pleasure horses (often more affordable horses) had no where they could compete. You could truly see the money winning. How high a horse trotted and how verticle its neck set directly linked with how much it was worth. Even at what was supposed to be the intro level, where people were supposed to be showing academy on lesson horses (horses that earned their living by being lesson horses in lesson programs), people broke the rules, and would ride their expensive hoses in training in the classes by having one other rider ride their horse for the show to create the appearance that the horse was used in lessons. While these academy classes weren't supposed to be judged on the quality of the horse (equitation was judged on the rider, pleasure on how the rider rode the horse) how often do you think the training horse won, just because it looked so much better than the rest? Even if the rider wasn't very good, it presented a better picture.
I don't want to see this sport go down that path. It could so easily. I think there has been a big shift, particularly in the last year, of what people are paying. With the advent of the online courses, what a person needs to spend to stay current has gone up. Of course, with the exception of this most recent incident, information that might not have been accessible to people before because of where they live might now be available to them.... if the price is right.
One of the things I loved about this sport from the get go is I didn't have to be rich to be good. I can be competitive, and I don't have to be rich. Sure, I can't travel to foreign countries to compete, but I work hard, and see the results of that hard work. I have dogs who can and do win. It has nothing to do with the money I spent on them.
 
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