Schools days for Laddie soon

Mom2Melli made another point that puts a different spin on this discussion. Evidently, there are commands and/or training methods in her (Mom2Melli's) rally training that may be somewhat similar to the movements experienced by reversing directions to stop a dog from pulling against the leash. I could see a distinction between reversing and standing still if I thought that one or the other method could likely cause confusion with other training methods used with my dog.

EJHUNTL, I get what you are saying about the screen name. I have been using JLSOhio51 since the very first computer screen name I used. It has traveled with me for many years.
 
Thanks -- I really don't want changing direction or halt-sit be perceived by the dog as part of doing sometime wrong. Wait-proceed is a totally different command we have so we go with no pull-wait-proceed. Wait is fine as a negative rather than a change of direction or even a halt-sit. Those get a click/treat (at least at first) when helling but sometimes it is a bad thing when just walking? Mixed message. Our trainer taught us stop-wait-bring back to the zone/focus on handler-proceed.
 
Just as update on Laddie's schooling: I have not started the classes with Laddie yet, the one this past Tuesday was for the owners only, they mainly told us how it worked, what to bring, sort of an orientation, the real classes start this coming Tuesday, I am really looking forward to them, they sound like fun but a lot of hard work as well.
I was thinking of you folks during the talk, they all said basically the same things as some of you regarding training, such as, do not do it for too long of a stretch, how to treat when they do well, what words to use, etc, it was just like I was "talking" to you.

This class is so popular and the trainers are so good, there is a wait list to get in, I understand this happens all the time. I will let you know how the first day goes, LOL, I hope Laddie won't be the "Class Clown"
 
When I took my shepherd, he is brilliant but took it very very seriously. As soon as he felt me disappointed at him not doing something right and happy when he did something right he dialed in and it was life and death to him. It was really hard on me to watch him super upset if I even said "no" and would do his "Mommy do you still love me" posturing. He's really sensitive. In fact, the teacher told me that kind of dog is best in low stress situations because they just get so upset over things.

The sheltie, eh, fun and games. You can see she is eager to learn and tries different things to get the click/treat, but there's just fun and more fun and joy and successes and "so what" at errors.

Just have a super time and above all take it as team-building and time toegether playing. Sit-stay-down-heel comes along as a bonus.
 
First day of school not too great

:confused2:Well, it was not too good of a start. The methods they use are good, but, well, he is not responding to some of them. He is fair with "watch" "sit" and sort of good with "heel". He still pulls like the dickens however when he knows I do not have a treat or we are just normal walking. They say not to use my Easy Walk Harness, but I am as long as I am home, otherwise, it just hurts my already painful back way to much, for being so light weight, he can really pull. As to "Down" he just will not do it, I have to literally get on my hands and knees and shove him down. All the other dogs were responding to the way the trainers said, which is to have him sit, then hold food between his legs until he lays down, well, forget it, this did not work, no matter what they tired, he would not do it, I was almost in tears. This morning, I tried my own method, and he was better. Also, he did not want to take his eyes off of Steve who was standing at the side lines, and near the end of the class, he got so hyper , he was barking and howling and straining on his leash to get to him. I told Steve to please leave, but that did not work, he could see him way across the field and he really got upset. I am almost in tears over this, I mean, he loves everyone but me, it is so obvious. If we are alone, they he is fine, but let ANYONE, and I mean ANYONE come near him, and I am chopped liver. This is getting old.

The classes are 7 weeks long, I hope we pass, but if yesterday is any indication, it is not promising. At least he performed better this morning at home.

He is just so hyper at school, he is not afraid, but, he will not listen to me at all, the other dogs, who are all more or less younger than he, even listened better, there may have been a few that did not behave, but all in all, they were very good. This cute little Samoyed, already would go down on command and sit, he was only 3 or 4 months old.

Oh well, hopefully all will get better. Does anyone have any ideas on how to teach "down"?:no:
 
Very often dog is uncomfortable doing ¨down¨ at strange places as it is too vulnerable position for the dog or dog is just to excited/ aroused.
You can attempt to shape/ capture the behavior of ¨down¨ at home. Carry some kibble with you in the pocket and every time you notice your dog lie down on his own, reward with kibble in such a way that dog does not have to move, then go about doing whatever you were doing. After while you will notice that behavior of down has increased in frequency. You can start pairing verbal marker ¨yes¨with your treat. After few times you will see dog offering down to solicit a treat. When you have pretty reliably offered down add verbal cue ¨down¨ to it.
If you use clicker you can just click every time you find dog laying on his own but do attempt to give treat in such a way that dog does not get up, dropping it between front paws helps.
 
Ok, I've been following your issues with Laddie and I don't think I've said much, so here it goes.

Is is possible for Steve to either not go to class or to drop you off and go elsewhere (where Laddie cannot see him)? I find training and obedience classes to be a great way for owners and dogs to bond, which you and Laddie need to strengthen your bond. It's obvious that Laddie already has a strong bond with Steve, and Steve knows it. I don't think it's necessary that he's there. Just my two cents.

Don't beat yourself up on a rough first class. Laddie was probably just taking it all in. New place, new smell, new people, new dogs... it's a lot for a young dog! Remember, he can sense your frustration, so sometimes you just have to smile and laugh it off. I struggle with this as well. I am not good at hiding facial expressions, so if I'm frustrated at flyball, it's all over my face. Our team trainer has to constantly remind me to relax and don't get frustrated with Missy because he probably sees me staring daggers in her direction. I take a deep breath and give her a pet because I love her, I'm just a little competitive (and determined).
 
Jess041 said:
Ok, I've been following your issues with Laddie and I don't think I've said much, so here it goes.

Is is possible for Steve to either not go to class or to drop you off and go elsewhere (where Laddie cannot see him)? I find training and obedience classes to be a great way for owners and dogs to bond, which you and Laddie need to strengthen your bond. It's obvious that Laddie already has a strong bond with Steve, and Steve knows it. I don't think it's necessary that he's there. Just my two cents.

Don't beat yourself up on a rough first class. Laddie was probably just taking it all in. New place, new smell, new people, new dogs... it's a lot for a young dog! Remember, he can sense your frustration, so sometimes you just have to smile and laugh it off. I struggle with this as well. I am not good at hiding facial expressions, so if I'm frustrated at flyball, it's all over my face. Our team trainer has to constantly remind me to relax and don't get frustrated with Missy because he probably sees me staring daggers in her direction. I take a deep breath and give her a pet because I love her, I'm just a little competitive (and determined).
Click to expand...
I have told him to NOT be any where around from now on, I paid good money for this training and I will not have it ruined. He seems to take delight in the fact that Laddie will not obey me at times, and when I have told him how I want him treated, he goes against my wishes. His sister lives near by, so, he can go visit her during that 45 minutes.

You are right about beating myself up, I am so hard on myself, and very competitive as well. When I was in junior college, if I got below an "A" I got very upset, LOL. I never realized how much the facial expressions meant to Shelties, gee, I better watch myself.

We took a walk today, I used his harness as he still pulls with the regular collar, he did well. Then, when we got home, I practiced again what we had been taught, I was so proud of Laddie, he is actually starting to go down when I say the command. All, in all, when it is just the two of us, he does great, even on our walk, I tried the "down" command once in a secluded area, he did it, I was shocked.
 
Sounds like a perfectly normal first class.

Laddie must have been so over-stimulated, all the new smells and sounds, more dogs than he's probably seen in once place since he was a pup. The fact that you got any focus from him at all is a major achievement. When I'm instructing it's a rare dog indeed that is focused in the first class or two.

With not using the harness in class, that's normal. We don't allow it in my classes either. The idea of the classes is to teach leash walking and doing things on leash, outside of class though there's no problem continuing to use the harness. And for doing the down - well the instructors at my club had a cap printed up - "but he does it at home", we hear it all the time. Drops in particular are really hard to do at training, it's a vulnerable position, as he gets used to the environment he'll be more willing to do it.

It's a good idea to have Steve out of his line of sight for the first couple of classes, at least until Laddie settles down and gets used to the environment. Maybe ask Steve to bring something to do for the next class and then when Laddie settles he can come back at and watch.
 
Don't worry too much! Dogs go through phrases. Laddie was somewhere he's never been. His first time seems very very typical. In fact, I'm shocked they even had you guys heeling, sitting and down all in one class. Ruutu was just in a regular puppy kindergarten class where we did do sit, down, come, stay, and talked a lot about grooming. But in those 6 weeks, Ruutu learned come and stay and a little bit of down. Down is still his hardest one. To be honest, I only use down with Honey when she's barking her head off because she knows if I put her in a down I mean business. I'm not too worried if Ruutu ever does a down, at least at his current age. The important ones are definitely come, stay, sit and heel (especially for pullers like Laddie and Ruutu) I find it weird she told you not to use an easy walk harness.... I would definitely keep using it.

Please remember you're in an area Laddie isn't used to. Ruutu often ignored me and my fiance at classes. He had new people and new dogs to meet and play with. If someone gave Ruutu cookies, boy.. Ruutu was their best friend. It was to the point I had to tell everyone not to give him treats until the end of the class. He still acts this way about food at Agility classes... those darn shelties really will work with anyone for food :rolleyes2:

Please also remember a lot of people teach their dogs away from just class. I know you have been working with Laddie outside as well, but I'm saying this because I taught Ruutu how to sit the very first day he was home with me. To this day he has an excellent sit. Stays are awesome as long as there is no tunnel in front of him...we're still working on Agility stays.

To teach down: Put Laddie in a sit (using sit command and treat over his face to scoot his butt back) Then put the treat in front of his nose and slowly (but fast enough he doesn't get it) move it down and away from him. This should put him in a down. give him the treat and tell him "good down" you will need to repeat this often. Do it for 3-5 minutes, stop for an hour or so, go back to it and repeat.

Sigh. I sadly tried to find a youtube video of this to show you, but at last, everyone did it wrong in the youtube videos from forcing their dog into downs to using prong collars to make them down. :gaah I should make my own training videos.. geesh!

I also recommend what Jess said. Have Steve not be there or make him sit in a chair in the corner and not let his butt move. Trust me, I had to do this with my fiance. My fiance is the play human where I'm the train human. Ruutu won't do anything obedient with my fiance other than sit and come because my fiance always plays with him. When Ruutu saw him at Agility class, Ruutu would blow me off (because I run him off leash...because he used to listen to me...but now smells are more fun) and go see him. My fiance would stand up and move around, Ruutu would go see him.... it was to the point I had to tell my fiance to stop moving and just sit and watch. Some classes my fiance didn't attend due to being out of town and Ruutu did perfectly fine with me. :gaah men...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top