Scientific Study on RAW/Homecooked/kibble

[marymrumfelt]

Hi marymrumfelt!

The kibble had "chicken meal" as the first ingredient - they tested Natura food, so not quite as bad as Ol Roy - one of the researchers was funded from Natura, so maybe they wanted to test their best food? Or a new formula? Hard to know.

Ahhh. I hate when this kind of information pops up. I'm leery of any study done that has ties like this. I think there should be no connections in a study for it to be 100% free of bias (well as free as possible I should say.) Even though this study favored raw, I'm less inclined to share this article knowing this. thanks for digging so deep and finding out some good details!

 

[biowicks]

Again, I am a biologist and know the science of this very well. When I said parasites, I was talking about animals in the wild, where their diet is not consistent as prey is not aways available, and where they will eat the entire animal, parasites included. People are welcome to feed their pets whatever they think is the best for them, but as I said, my training wouldn't allow me to feed raw, especially raw that was left unrefrigerated outside for days. If I wouldn't eat it, I wouldn't feed it to my pet.

My puppy absolutely needed the fiber to absorb water and give bulk to the stool. She came to me with a coccidia infection and had an inflamed gut as a result. The high fiber diet fixed the problem, but even now, if she has too many treats at a training session (and I use Blue Buffalo), she will have soft stools again. She absolutely cannot tolerate a low fiber diet right now. Every animal is different.

As I said before, everyone has the right to do what they think is best for their pet, and after 8 shelties and the problems with this puppy, I know she needs the fiber, at least for now.

 

[marymrumfelt]

Again, I am a biologist and know the science of this very well. When I said parasites, I was talking about animals in the wild, where their diet is not consistent as prey is not aways available, and where they will eat the entire animal, parasites included. People are welcome to feed their pets whatever they think is the best for them, but as I said, my training wouldn't allow me to feed raw, especially raw that was left unrefrigerated outside for days. If I wouldn't eat it, I wouldn't feed it to my pet.

My puppy absolutely needed the fiber to absorb water and give bulk to the stool. She came to me with a coccidia infection and had an inflamed gut as a result. The high fiber diet fixed the problem, but even now, if she has too many treats at a training session (and I use Blue Buffalo), she will have soft stools again. She absolutely cannot tolerate a low fiber diet right now. Every animal is different.

As I said before, everyone has the right to do what they think is best for their pet, and after 8 shelties and the problems with this puppy, I know she needs the fiber, at least for now.

If I wouldn't eat it, I wouldn't feed it to my pet.

I find this VERY hard to believe. You're saying you would eat kibble? You realize that kibble is processed food with hardly any natural nutritional value left in it? They have to use spray on vitamins to even account for the vitamins your animal needs to be healthy. Yes, your dog is getting most of his vital vitamins from something artificially made in a lab. That's because there's so little meat content in the food. Why do you think cat food, for instance, has taurine added to it? If the food was sufficient in meat, they wouldn't have to supplement that as many cats live for years and years and strive on a raw diet. Also, they allow 4D dogs in pet food -- down, diseased, dying and dead animals. You want to eat that? What about the euthanized animals and the road kill that go into it? You would eat all that?

So before you say something like, really do examine the statement. Read that Harvard Law dissertation I posted on the kibble section and it has very good sources to back up everything said if you doubt any of these ingredients.

I, however, truly don't feed my animals anything I won't eat. They eat grass fed, free range animals that have been given the correct diet and had room to roam their whole life. They eat animals that are freshly killed and I am able to see the state of the animals when killed as we get whole prey only so I know my chickens don't have sores/missing feathers/have seen day light, etc.(trust me, the ones in kibble have never seen daylight.) I won't even feed them grocery store meat. I really do abide by that motto and strive very hard to do so.

I still disagree about any carnivore need fiber in their diet. But to each their own is exactly right. My dogs eat a diet of bones, meat, and organs and they have the tiniest poops that turn to powder and go back into the soil in about two days. My dogs poop makes wonderful fertilizer because it's all natural...

It really is impossible to argue McDonalds (kibble) is ever better than healthy, fresh food in its natural state. I could never be sold on a dog ever benefiting more from processed foods than raw/home cooked. Now the owner benefiting because it's easier? Oh, yeah!

 

[ClantyreSheltie]

I don't eat raw food because of the parasite and spoilage issue and I don't want that for my pet, either.

I think you are half right

You shouldn't eat spoiled or buggy food because our digestive tracts are pretty long, and are very susceptible to making us sick. But dogs have much shorter tracts that are specifically evolved to handle food that is not in pristine, human condition.

Remember, dogs eat poop. A little bit of spoiled or slightly smelly chicken is certainly not going to do them in, neither are the rabbits that several members have reported their dogs caught in the yard.

 

[HopeShelties]

All I can say is for me, the risks of feeding raw aren't as high as feeding kibble. It was a wakeup call when every dog I own came down very sick (to the extent of seizures even) eating contaminated dog food. To me, at this point with all of the recalls and the number of brands that have had them is like russian roulette. Its only a matter of time. Standards just aren't high enough and there are too many unknowns. I have no idea if I have caused my dogs permanent damage in feeding contaminated kibble. I just can't take more chances. With the raw food, I feel like I have better control over what they are eating.
Now, mine aren't getting raw that is left out either. I am feeding what they can eat in one sitting... besides, I am trying to control their weights and by free feeding can not do that. I am not feeding wild animals either, so feel the risk of getting parasite laden food is pretty low.

 

[romeosangiovese]

One of the reasons why I switched to homecooked from kibble, and then finally to raw years ago was precisely because of contamination in food. And it wasn't even PET FOOD that got me to make the switch, it was human food! At that time there was melamine contamination in dairy products and baby milk powders. If it could happen to people food where the standards tend to be higher and where it is more regulated, I can only imagine what corners are cut to make pet food.

From then on, I tried to feed food that has as little "middle men" from source to dog as possible. More middle men = more risk in contamination. Hence raw seemed the best way to go.

 

[Caro]

I do agree that the study size is too small, and limited to draw big conclusions between kibble and fresh. But it does have some interesting findings, in particular that they found little difference between cooked and raw, My cat refuses to eat raw (unless she catches it herself) and will only eat cooked meals (andkibble). So I do feel reassured and probably won't keep up the struggle of getting her to eat raw. My dogs have always preferred cooked too.

 

[marymrumfelt]

I do agree that the study size is too small, and limited to draw big conclusions between kibble and fresh. But it does have some interesting findings, in particular that they found little difference between cooked and raw, My cat refuses to eat raw (unless she catches it herself) and will only eat cooked meals (andkibble). So I do feel reassured and probably won't keep up the struggle of getting her to eat raw. My dogs have always preferred cooked too.

My cat also refuses to eat raw, too. I have fostered 4 week old baby kittens who eat through entire chicken necks so I don't know what gives. I'm going to try cooked with her. At least I'd know exactly what she's eating.

The biggest disadvantage of home cooked for me would be their teeth not getting cleaned. One of them had a bit of tarter building on on their back teeth and after eating a whole chicken it was gone b/c he worked hard to eat it. I'd also miss the mental stimulation they're getting when they're working on eating their whole prey. I think that mental stimulation, especially for my two that have neurological disorders is vital to staying healthy. I would also think cooked would take more time and supplements as you'd be destroying nutrients with the heat so you'd have to make up for that someone, I'd imagine -- maybe you could steam the veggies and then puree them to help cut down on the nutrients being lost. It seems a lot harder than taking the meat out of the fridge, handing it to them, and having them eat it. But if I couldn't afford to buy the kind of meat I do, I'd probably cook the grocery store meat as I'd fear it's too contaminated to eat raw. But dogs do it everyday as most ppl who feed raw go to the store to buy meat and their dogs are just fine so I might be overreacting on that end.

 

[marymrumfelt]

One of the reasons why I switched to homecooked from kibble, and then finally to raw years ago was precisely because of contamination in food. And it wasn't even PET FOOD that got me to make the switch, it was human food! At that time there was melamine contamination in dairy products and baby milk powders. If it could happen to people food where the standards tend to be higher and where it is more regulated, I can only imagine what corners are cut to make pet food.

From then on, I tried to feed food that has as little "middle men" from source to dog as possible. More middle men = more risk in contamination. Hence raw seemed the best way to go.

This is how my mind operates, too! I've even gone so far as knowing the farmer and the sources where the meat comes from so it really cuts down on "middle men." It's the only way my mind can rest because if I don't know what I'm feeding them (and myself) and how it was raised and cared for before death, I'm not going to be comfortable handing it to them to eat.

I live by a chicken farm here in the US and we see the semi trucks driving by with the chickens going to the slaughter house. This is Tyson Farms if you've heard of them. Well, the chickens never see daylight, they are missing their beaks b/c they have to cut them off due to the risk of them pecking each other to death because there so overcrowded and on top of each other, they're missing feathers -- almost all of them, they have sores a lot of the time and they're very, very pale. Basically half-dead and only alive through copious amounts of antibiotics. Also, most of these chickens have been genetically modified to have larger breasts therefor their legs usually break and they can't stand due to their large weight. The chicken feed has been known to have Arsenic in it although I do believe the Senate did finally make that illegal. I cannot consciously walk into a store and buy them chicken that I know lived like that. And to think about the animals in kibble is even scarier. They just had a cow come back with mad cow disease here in the states and that cow will most likely end up in the dog food rendering process. They send sick animals to be put in dog food -- it's disgusting and just awful what they're allowed to feed the animals.

 

[The Quahog]

Well, my dogs last week for example had a whole chicken -- feathers and everything. They ate on it about four days and it stayed out in the yard the entire time. They would eat as they pleased. They do this twice a month, every other week they get a whole prey item to snack on almost all week. They love it -- the riper the better for them! .

Funny story-
We spayed a husky a few months ago for one of our more -well, let's say 'unusual'- clients.
Needless to say she was supposed to be fasted. But shortly after the procedure she vomited. A lot. Rank course fur and hair,big chunks of meat. Yuck.
So when he called I said 'You know - we told you not to feed this dog, but her stomach was full of food. And it was pretty rank stuff.'
And he says - 'I didn't give her nuthin' doc- except there's that deer in the back yard they been eaten' on all week.'

Now see, to the local sensibilities of myself and our staff, we were appalled. Now I find out that, except for the pre-op part, this was a GOOD thing!

-Dr. Mac