Straight front???

[Ann]

This is a fascinating topic to me, since I am trying to learn more about serious Sheltie conformation. For years, I've watched dogs gait in the show ring and was always able to pick out those with the best gait, but didn't know why they were better. Also interesting to me is that, as some of you have said, judges don't always place those dogs with the best gait or the best structure.

Thanks to all of you for adding your expertise (and the photos to illustrate what you're talking about!). It is so helpful to those of us trying to wade through that Wikipedia of Sheltiedom...the Sheltie Standard, and make sense of what we're looking at in our dogs.

 

[Mikos_Mom]

This is a fascinating topic to me, since I am trying to learn more about serious Sheltie conformation. For years, I've watched dogs gait in the show ring and was always able to pick out those with the best gait, but didn't know why they were better. Also interesting to me is that, as some of you have said, judges don't always place those dogs with the best gait or the best structure.

Thanks to all of you for adding your expertise (and the photos to illustrate what you're talking about!). It is so helpful to those of us trying to wade through that Wikipedia of Sheltiedom...the Sheltie Standard, and make sense of what we're looking at in our dogs.

I agree! I was having trouble visualizing straight vs. correct, etc. The photos really helped a lot. I just took a close look at Miko (he's still pretty bald, so it's not hard to see)... he's not quite a perfect as the posted photos, but he's definitely not staight up and down either. He doesn't have the ewe neck spoken of... his ears are well ahead of his feet/legs etc. I don't plan to breed him (he's going to be oversize and I don't have the time, knowledge or space at this point in my life).. but at some point I feel like I may want to become more involved in the breed... so this is all of great interest to me.

 

[DogIsMyMantra]

My opinion probably won't be very popular, but I don't think it is so much that straight fronts are being rewarded as it is a pretty head tends to be placed at higher importance than about anything else in the conformation ring. So, a dog with a straight front, yet very nice head may be put up.
I think shelties in general don't have the best fronts. It can be hard to find dogs within the breed with truly nice fronts on them.

I like this thread. It makes me feel good about Bella. She was the only potential show prospect of her litter, but turned out too light boned, on the small side, and without a flashy enough head for showing. I've been told by 'sheltie people' who put their hands on her that she has an unusually good front for a sheltie.

I also had Bel evaluated by a sports/performance vet before beginning competition to make sure she was well constructed for agility. The vet said the same thing many of you mention about there being lots of shelties in performance sports with way too straight fronts. She works on a lot of these shelties regularly (chiro/acupuncture) just to keep them competing.

It's kind of sad to think that something detrimental to good working structure is being (inadvertantly even) rewarded in the show ring.

 

[Mikos_Mom]

It's kind of sad to think that something detrimental to good working structure is being (inadvertantly even) rewarded in the show ring.

This makes me think of what has happend to the show lines of GSDs.... The angle of their rear legs, that is highly praised in the show ring, has rendered them virtually lame. There are dogs with their rears collapsing!! It's really sad that a collective group of thinking human beings, who are supposed to be supporters and lovers of the breed, would move in a direction that is clearly detrimental to the dogs.

 

[ClantyreSheltie]

Here is an example of horrendous structure. It's not easy to see through the coat, but look where the front legs are, and think if they are holding up the front of the dog well (the answer is no). Then look at where the ears are. Some of that is the handler jamming the dogs head back, but most of it is really bad structure. What I cropped out of this picture for anonymity is the handler, and the kennel club name and award. This was a major win.

http://sheltieforums.com/album.php?albumid=334&pictureid=3824

 

[HopeShelties]

That's just sickening to look at It makes me sick thinking that that is the type of dog regularly put up in the AKC ring. I wish I could say I'm surprised, but unfortunately I'm not

 

[tofu pup]

Here is an example of horrendous structure. It's not easy to see through the coat, but look where the front legs are, and think if they are holding up the front of the dog well (the answer is no). Then look at where the ears are. Some of that is the handler jamming the dogs head back, but most of it is really bad structure. What I cropped out of this picture for anonymity is the handler, and the kennel club name and award. This was a major win.

http://sheltieforums.com/album.php?albumid=334&pictureid=3824

The frustrating thing is that, as far as I can tell, ears-over-(or behind)-the-leg is the accepted, desired look in Poodles. They want the heads very high (straight up out of the shoulders) but you lose the front end when you do that. It's sad. I get that the Standard is for the "head carried proudly", but it's just not a sensible way to build a dog.

 

[Mikos_Mom]

Just out of curiosity... and so I can tell whether I'm seeing things correctly... what do you think of this front?

 

[ClantyreSheltie]

The frustrating thing is that, as far as I can tell, ears-over-(or behind)-the-leg is the accepted, desired look in Poodles. They want the heads very high (straight up out of the shoulders) but you lose the front end when you do that. It's sad. I get that the Standard is for the "head carried proudly", but it's just not a sensible way to build a dog.

The poodle people tell me that the dogs have to be able to hold their heads up out of the water. Right. Like those dogs could even swim without sinking with the 18 inches of hair over their necks.

 

[HopeShelties]

Oh, that's quite an excuse. My shelties have no problem holding their heads above water just fine without being bred to crank their necks back like that. During the summer, mine are constantly swimming in lakes, and training for dock diving, and have no problems whatsoever.
You know, most of the poodles I've seen are pretty poor speedwise in agility. I know of only one that has structure decent enough to truly move out well on course.