Swtching from eukanuba to Holistic Selectt

EJHUNTL said:
I'm curious as well - wouldn't vets advise against switching foods if this were the case? It's been my experience that vets are anxious to get you onto the food they sell...

...feeding ProPlan and both advised switching the puppies over gradually to what I'd like to feed, with the main concern being runny poop from too sudden a change. Neither mentioned a possible growth impact...

Do you have any scientific literature to back up that assertion?
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EJHUNTL: It would seem that you and I are thinking along the same lines. It would seem (to me) to be a serious breech of a material piece of information for a vet or a breeder to not be aware of and/or disclose facts that could effect the healthy growth of a puppy. I guess I could understand a breeder not being aware of all of the effects of a feeding change, but it would be more difficult to understand how a vet wouldn't be aware of this if it is true.

As EJHUNTL has said, if anyone has source information that they can cite, I too would love to see it. It's not that I doubt the assertion, but for something this important, I would like to go to the sources.
 
Here we go...
First, When it comes to raising puppies, I would always listen to a long time sheltie breeder before I would listen to a vet. Veterinarians are experts at so many health issues, but most of it is book learned (unless they grew up in a household breeding dogs).

If you raise many, many puppies over many, many, years, you see the subtle aspects of puppy growth. Also, I have the benefit of networking with a slew of sheltie breeders, some that have been in dogs over 50 years. My vet hasn't been in dogs for 50 years, nor has he seen day to day puppies up close and personal. We have to be extremely diligent when setting a program for a puppy on track to be a show dog. You can't go back, and say, "I wish I had done that differently". It could be too late.

Now the food...If you ate only carrots for the first 8 weeks of your life, and then changed to only cheese, the nutrients would affect your body differently. Each dog food has its' own recipe, and protein percentage.
You want a steady, consistent growth rate throughout, until the puppy is a mature dog. Sometimes you will hear of breeders changing over to adult food, with less protein to slow down the growth rate.
 
One more thought...JLSOhio51,

The appendages grow at the fastest rate. This is very evident in the larger or giant breeds. You might not notice companion dogs with skewed front legs, as quickly as a breeder would. But someone growing out a puppy with high hopes of an agility career would.

Vets mountain-top on nutrition. Unless that is their specialty, they just can't give it the in-depth consideration, as they would another aspect of their practice. And add to that, different food formulas are actually better for different breeds. You wouldn't feed a large breed formula to a yorkie. So how many food companies are they expected to be knowledgeable about, enough to recommend to you for your dog?
 
First of all, I want to agree with your decision to move to a better quality food than Eukanuba.

Years ago, I fed it to my dog because at the time IT was the better quality over dog chow.

The industry has evolved so much since then. You're choices are endless! And yes, it would make your eyes spin.

Holistic Select is a good choice, but I have to ask why you chose that over all the other brands out there. What drove you to this one in particular? I ask my pet parents this questions all the time when they come to my store, asking for a particular brand. And yes, I carry Holistic Select.

Now, to missjennygirl's comments.....I'm sorry, but I would really like to see some supporting facts.

I 100% agree with you that vets are not nutrionists. I would also challenge a little with the idea that breeders will feed the best they can at the lowest price point. They have too....too expensive otherwise. I get that.

Also, some breeders, btw, are subsidized by dog food companies. Yes, mine was subsidized by Pro Plan. So I had to take that with a grain of salt.

We all know that food should be transitioned over a 2-3 week period, but you are suggesting that her dog stay on a mediocre food for how long? I really don't get what you are saying. :hide:confused2:
 
missjenneygirl said:
One more thought...JLSOhio51,


Vets mountain-top on nutrition. Unless that is their specialty, they just can't give it the in-depth consideration, as they would another aspect of their practice...
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OK - That makes some sense. I'm not sure I can wrap my head totally around that point, since the inference in these pages is that few if any vets address potentially restricted growth patterns that may result from switching diets with young pups. I mean, we aren't talking about switching from bad to good (or even vice versa). We are talking about simply switching. It's hard to envision that no vet training would pick this up and address it. However, as I said, it's not outside the realm of the possible.

But, if your thought process is correct (and I have no reason to say it is wrong), then I don't understand why the general consensus here is that breeders are not (in general) sharing this point either. As I said before, I would love for anyone who has any citable resources for this issue to share them here. I am now searching for references to follow up on this idea. I would hate to feel torn for a year because I left my pup on what I felt was an inferior food because my alternative was to compromise his growth by switching.
 
I think it is common knowledge among breeders......there just aren't many breeders on this forum. And here is the reason...

It is very frustrating to give information over and over, and most people with their one little dog don't want to hear it. The people that want and seek the information will use their breeder as a mentor to give them the best of their years of learning and raising puppies. An example would be, I have mentioned many times, gluing ears past 8 weeks doesn't work, and just makes blobs of glue that has to be cut out, or the hair is pulled out. But still, many people like that technique. To each their own.

I am certainly not going to say I am an expert, but I have raised, not just whelped, upwards of 50 puppies. Maybe Tofu Pup has a handle on the true number. So, when I pass along information, it comes from years of observing and learning.
 
BarbV,

I chose Holistic Select because it was what I fed my previous Sheltie ( until he refused to eat kibble any longer) & the vet also commented on how well his skin & fur looked. It was also one of the brands the trainer suggested. There are so many choices out there that it is overwhelming and so confusing. It seems that the Eukanuba Excel is a decent quality, no preservatives or by products, but the trainer said that it tends to make puppies hyper. Don't know if that's true or not. When he is ready to move on to adult food, what do you suggest?
 
Thank you for sharing your experience MissJennyGirl. It is much appreciated. I have found over the years, not just with my dogs, that experience and hands-on knowledge sometimes is what we need to hear and learn from. We can have all the studies, all the book learning, but it is the experienced breeder who can steer us on the right road. I had Emma on Eukanuba until she was over a year and then decided to switch brands because I was having trouble finding it.
 
Honestly my take on that is unless there is a double blind scientific study - then what we have is speculation based on observation. Expert observation for sure, but still what you would consider anectdotal evidence.

I'm sure there are breeders out there with loads of experience when it comes to nutrition but they are not all created equal. I would also give vets a bit more credit when it comes to nutrition - many have pets and some are also breeders themselves. ( Dr Shelli comes to mind)

I fail to see how switching from what is a good quality food ( Eukanuba) to a similar or better quality food ( Acana, TOTW, Holistic, Raw, insert your pick here) will impact growth negatively on a cellular level. Your carrot and cheese analogy is nonsensical as neither of those would provide a complete balanced diet and no one would consider feeding either.

What does make sense to me is that switching foods changes the relative amount of protein/fats & carbs & also nutrients. I can see how more or less of a particular nutrient could impact growth…puppies need more calories as they are growing faster - that makes sense, so moving too fast to an adult food might be harmful. However where is the proof that the switch to a similar or better quality puppy food will be a negative one? Couldn't it also have a positive impact or be neutral? Why not? I'd never consider raw ( time and ick factor) but lots of breeders think it's the ultimate diet. Would a change to raw be negative?

My thinking is that if you drop to a grocery store brand it's likely that the nutritional content will drop, likewise if you move to a premium food you might conceivably do better nutritionally speaking. What if the breeder had been feeding a grocery store brand (IAMS come sto mind) or raw - should all buyers have to stick with those choices?

Still not convinced over here. My breeder was feeding Proplan and according to the food analyzer website recommended on here - it is a mid-grade food ( as is Eukanuba). Mine rates 5 stars. From a strictly financial perspective I would have been better off sticking with Proplan, but I can afford to feed my pup better quality so why wouldn't I? I can see where it could be a factor if I had multiple dogs to feed.

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/purina-pro-plan-dog-food-selects-dry/
 
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