Temperament / Barking Questions

[MissyGallant]

I know this is a Sheltie forum but I have to ask: what do you mean by "work"? Is hiking partner, agility/obedience partner, and teaching things that use the dog's brain not enough to be considered work?

I had a friend with rescue borders. They needed to always learn. But they need something to physically do as well. His dogs did not have the proper humans. They were neurotic when he got them. He got them using their brains, and physically moving. Think of a 5 year old. They need time to be a wiggle worm and they need to learn.

I fear you may have read one of my posts about my Tara and horses. She hates them. We went to a parade, the fire engine was behind the horse. The horse passed Tara, the fire truck blew it's siren. Tara has hated horses since. This is HIGHLY- HIGHLY unusual. Tara had a period in her life that bad things happened to her. We've gotten her past most of it, but not all of it. Since we don't live around horses, we haven't seen much of a need to get her over that hurdle.

I have three other dogs that could give a flying hoot if there is a horse around them. Full on ignore mode. These other three dogs are ALWAYS up for an adventure, a car ride, a trip to a hike, a trip to work or a pet store, a music festival- ANYTHING! In face, the crave variety like we humans do. Cooper and the Belles always want to go with us. We just don't take Tara where there will be loud noises, she doesn't like it.

I lived in an apartment with Brodie, and never had a barking complaint. I trained him Quiet. Cooper and the Belles, I snap my fingers and wave my index finger NO and they stop- unless there is a squirrel or Mandy the sheltie that lives behind us. And get this- Mandy is old and has lost most of her sight and hearing. Her owner lets her out to potty. If Mandy leaves her property without her owner- THAT is when my dogs bark. If her owner is with her, they don't. They are watching out for their elderly neighbor

 

[Silaria]

I know this is a Sheltie forum but I have to ask: what do you mean by "work"? Is hiking partner, agility/obedience partner, and teaching things that use the dog's brain not enough to be considered work? I understand that BCs are dogs that need to feel that they have a purpose, even if that purpose is bonafide tennis ball catcher.

Agility and obedience, even a new sport named treibball, are great for BC's because they have to learn. Walks help burn off some physical energy but these super intelligent dogs also have a need for mental stimulation, something the performance sports you mention are great for. That said, a condo may not be the ideal place for a BC because of it's size.

Most folks I know with BCs have reasonably sized yards where the dogs can run and play safely. Sure, a lot of communities have off leash dog parks now-a-days but those come with their own issues such as irresponsible owners not paying attention to their dogs resulting in dog fights (especially if the dog is (semi-) aggressive.

Long and short of it is BCs, even those not farm-bred, can be very intense and active dogs. If they get bored they WILL make their own job and chances are it won't be something you like. Quite a number of them end up in rescue for this reason alone.

 

[corbinam]

My recommendation and answer to your entire post is that a sheltie may suit your needs, but the key will be finding a breeder that you can be honest with, and that is honest with you. Some shelties bark...a lot. Some don't bark much at all. Some breeders don't mind if their shelties bark, and some pointedly don't keep or breed dogs that are very reactive or barky (two different things).

In terms of exercise, I have 1 sheltie who could lay around all day every day (he has an ADCH, but only because we asked, lol!), one who loves to play and is up for anything but will relax when she gets her exercise (also an ADCH), and one sheltie that is a BC in a little sheltie body. Now I can't get too frustrated with that because I wanted drive, and that's what I got! But for me, I'll take drive + noise over lack of drive and quiet. That doesn't mean they're mutually exclusive, but a lot of breeders just don't worry about barking.

 

[Sheltielover2404]

My recommendation and answer to your entire post is that a sheltie may suit your needs, but the key will be finding a breeder that you can be honest with, and that is honest with you. Some shelties bark...a lot. Some don't bark much at all. Some breeders don't mind if their shelties bark, and some pointedly don't keep or breed dogs that are very reactive or barky (two different things).

In terms of exercise, I have 1 sheltie who could lay around all day every day (he has an ADCH, but only because we asked, lol!), one who loves to play and is up for anything but will relax when she gets her exercise (also an ADCH), and one sheltie that is a BC in a little sheltie body. Now I can't get too frustrated with that because I wanted drive, and that's what I got! But for me, I'll take drive + noise over lack of drive and quiet. That doesn't mean they're mutually exclusive, but a lot of breeders just don't worry about barking.

What is a ADCH?

 

[corbinam]

What is a ADCH?

ADCH is the championship title from the United States Dog Agility Association (USDAA). It stands for Agility Dog Champion.

 

[Daisy1015]

I was raised with shelties, I am on my second and my parents have had 6 over the years.

i respectfully partially disagree that a barking sheltie is due to lack of training in all cases. It makes a huge difference but dog personality is a huge factor and training will help curb this but some are just plain more vocal than others and "conversational".

I have had one dog at a time, both active, spirited not hyper, smart, vocal shelties and they go lots of places with me and would be ideal for agility. Both were people, child, animal friendly. they will chase movement but when raised with something from puppyhood you can train them what to chase or not. I Allowed squirrels and birds in yard not on leash. My first saw a horse once and was fine. That same dog lived with a house rabbit and was fine but supervised when he was out. Expose them early and they will learn.
There will be alot of work potentially involved in sound reactvity but usually to just certain trigger sounds and especially in teen months when senses sharpen dramatically. I found counter conditioning with positive reinforcement to be very effective. Certain sounds become a game to react to after they are no longer stress inducing but again counter conditioning will end most of that. My mom has had quieter more independent and sometimes more laidback dogs. My current teen has made huge growth in reactivity at ten months but was very difficult from6-9 months in sound reactivity and barking BUT he has a special need because he was a singleton. He is mostly confident, always people and dog friendly, soft mouth but certain stimuli i have had to work hard at counterconditioning. This is unique to him and he can so far be trained to anything.
You have socialization covered and exercise. That wouldnt be a concern. My dogs go most every where with me.
I work full time and my dog is alone 30-40 hours a week. We exercise before and after work and before bed and interact alot when home. My dogs just got into schedule of napping during day and having active periods around my schedule. Even when i am home they keep this schedule on their own.

my first dog was in an apartment for 4 years and neighbors rarely heard him except maybe garbage man and howling when I would first leave. Just briefly they said. No one was bothered. And he was a barkier sheltie aka conversational barker.

I always know i can bark soften as a last resort.

All our shelties over 40 years were rock solid to people and animals and kids. Socalized early. We had one born 40 years ago that was timid and very soft temperament and passive. A couple includng my current singleton that could have quirky reactivity but with training and socialization got past it.

 

[Jewels]

I'll be bringing my little girl home in a couple of weeks. I'd love to know how you trained you shelties to not bark.
Thanks!

Border Collies NEED to work, if they can't they become quite frustrated dogs. Unless you have an environment that has that capability, please pass on that breed. So many get a bad rap when really they just aren't allowed to do what they were bred to do.
I do NOT like barky/yapping dogs. I have had 4 shelties, let me say I do NOT let them bark. I am on them NOT to bark, since the day they arrive. So I would say that if they are barky it is because they are/were allowed to bark without limits. Mine know that barky isn't allowed. They can vocalize, they are thanked and then that is it. I have lived in apts and condos with 2 of mine, they didn't bark. But I will say when mine are left they are left with the radio on, to soothe them and to block out a lot of the commotion that goes on that they might react to. If my dogs are barking, they are doing so for good reason and it means something is wrong in their world.

Adventuring- all mine have been keen to that. They prefer to go with, then be left behind. Mine do very well in the car. They know if I pack a suitcase it is a road trip and they know they have to behave. But I reinforced this since puppyhood. Exposure and training makes for a better dog in any breed. Shelties aim to please and if they get what you want they are quick to comply. They all seem to go through a shy phase, and during that, you have to be very mindful of how you deal with it. 2 of mine haven't been great with other people, they would retreat until they observed the person and figured out about them. My other 2 haven't met anyone they don't think is wonderful. My tri-colored ones have been more reserved. I don't know if the temperament is due to genes, color or what. My sables were the outgoing ones, and seemed more intelligent (maybe just better at getting what they wanted). Just my experience. I have had girls, and they are notorious flirts with males, both human and canine. They are divas, they demand attention, but are highly loyal. Mine let me know when they are bored or upset with something you have done. I never had a male sheltie but I am told they are more laid back and accommodating. My breeder says the girls are sassy, independent, & very clever-I think that is a great description. They say you pick a breed based on personality, and the descriptors define me. Probably why I love them to pieces.

Coming to this forum, we are devout devoted fans of this breed. We know there are negatives but most of us would say the greatness outweighs any of the challenges. I wouldn't have any other type, they have proven to be the best companions, the funniest entertainers, and the most loyal sensitive dogs I know.

 

[Isabella]

Didn't know that Shelties can be trained not to bark! They seem to come with a need to do so. My loved Sheltie Lucky who just died felt she was protecting and guarding us when she barked. If I can get another one, which I would like to do (rescue, if possible), I will try the idea of letting it bark and then thanking it and not letting it bark a lot more. She also ran to the door to protect us from every visitor, and then did not want to allow the visitor to leave!
They're herding dogs. I honestly would not advise anyone who needs a quiet dog to get a Sheltie! But I loved Lucky so much... she was intensely dedicated to us, slept on a bed at the foot of ours (preferred being on the floor where she could see me for the first part of the night), etc.
I wish you well! Hope it works out for you to have another dog. I really want another Sheltie but I have a lot of land and no truly nearby neighbors.

Border Collies NEED to work, if they can't they become quite frustrated dogs. Unless you have an environment that has that capability, please pass on that breed. So many get a bad rap when really they just aren't allowed to do what they were bred to do.
I do NOT like barky/yapping dogs. I have had 4 shelties, let me say I do NOT let them bark. I am on them NOT to bark, since the day they arrive. So I would say that if they are barky it is because they are/were allowed to bark without limits. Mine know that barky isn't allowed. They can vocalize, they are thanked and then that is it. I have lived in apts and condos with 2 of mine, they didn't bark. But I will say when mine are left they are left with the radio on, to soothe them and to block out a lot of the commotion that goes on that they might react to. If my dogs are barking, they are doing so for good reason and it means something is wrong in their world.

Adventuring- all mine have been keen to that. They prefer to go with, then be left behind. Mine do very well in the car. They know if I pack a suitcase it is a road trip and they know they have to behave. But I reinforced this since puppyhood. Exposure and training makes for a better dog in any breed. Shelties aim to please and if they get what you want they are quick to comply. They all seem to go through a shy phase, and during that, you have to be very mindful of how you deal with it. 2 of mine haven't been great with other people, they would retreat until they observed the person and figured out about them. My other 2 haven't met anyone they don't think is wonderful. My tri-colored ones have been more reserved. I don't know if the temperament is due to genes, color or what. My sables were the outgoing ones, and seemed more intelligent (maybe just better at getting what they wanted). Just my experience. I have had girls, and they are notorious flirts with males, both human and canine. They are divas, they demand attention, but are highly loyal. Mine let me know when they are bored or upset with something you have done. I never had a male sheltie but I am told they are more laid back and accommodating. My breeder says the girls are sassy, independent, & very clever-I think that is a great description. They say you pick a breed based on personality, and the descriptors define me. Probably why I love them to pieces.

Coming to this forum, we are devout devoted fans of this breed. We know there are negatives but most of us would say the greatness outweighs any of the challenges. I wouldn't have any other type, they have proven to be the best companions, the funniest entertainers, and the most loyal sensitive dogs I know.

 

[Finn]

Hi everyone!

I am thinking of adding a second dog and am considering a Shetland Sheepdog. I had little interest in the breed until I realized how many attributes they fit the bill on - intelligence, size, and biddability, to name a few. There are a couple of things, however, than concern me - mostly, the barking, timidness, and sound sensitivity.

Perhaps the best way to explain why I am concerned is to explain who I am and what I do. I work full time and live in a condo (a VERY large condo, but it is a condo building nonetheless). Before anyone asks, exercise is not a problem.. in addition to regular leash walks (and my involvement in dog sports which I'll talk about later), I have both hiking trails and beaches within a 15 minute drive from my home and I use them a lot. However, being in a building makes barking a concern, as there would at least be a couple of days a week where the dog is left for 4+ hours by itself or with my other dog. We don't live in a particularly noisy area, but there ARE things that a dog might find bark-worthy.. the railway behind our building going by, for example. I understand that barking is an innate characteristic of this breed based on their history. But can proper training, exercise, mental stimulation and impulse control make it so that barking isn't an excessive problem?

Additionally, I am the type of person who takes my dog everywhere. On errands, to the horse farm where I ride, to local demos/events, and of course to class several days a week (I am a volunteer instructor at my local dog club). I also do quite a bit of Agility and Rally (my current dog has a MACH and is working on her RAE) and these are things I would like my next dog to do as well. So I NEED a solid temperament.. and based on the things I've heard so far in my search, I'm not sold that this exists or is a guarantee in this breed.

I am VERY familiar with socialization and desensitization to sounds.. but since this was an issue for my first dog (a rescue), neither shyness towards people nor sound sensitivity are something I want to have to deal with as a source of fear for the life of my next dog. I don't need a dog who loves everyone.. I don't even mind a dog who gets grumbly about strangers entering their home.. but I'd like a dog who is temperamentally sound in public.

Frankly, there are many things I like about Border Collies and am considering a BC, but the portability and *slightly* lower exercise requirements made me give Shelties a second look. I'm not even sure what question I'm asking -- I know I need to do more research -- but I wanted to hear from Sheltie owners whether a Sheltie might work for my situation. I know no trait is set in stone with any dog regardless of breed or upbringing.. but bottom line, I prefer less bark and need a dog up for lots of different adventures.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Finn]

My sheltie is definetly a barker and it can be trying at times. We can leave him for up to 8 hours with no problems, no chewing , accidents or problems. My neighbours all get barked at daily even though he knows them. In the house he barks if someone is at the door or if he has to go out . He will bark at other dogs or people at the park. I have to say he is my 3rd sheltie and I love the breed so much. They are so smart and loyal. I don't think there is a perfect dog out there and you certainly set the rules when they are pups but it has been my experience that it is hard to quiet a sheltie! My dog sleeps a lot when in the house and generally follows us around and loves to play with his toys. I am a sheltie lover so I always recommend them to people when they ask but some are noisy and I have met a few who never talk!!!