To show or not to show

[Ann]

I've been teaching Finnie obedience and conformation together and while I do find he wants to sit at times, I've also taught him the stand command. I figure Shelties are smart enough to be taught both. Besides, you won't be penalized if they sit in the show ring lol.

This is very true! I'm doing Rally classes with Flurry to help her focus and although she (mostly ) sits easily at Rally, she hasn't done it in the show ring. Another thing that helps is to be sure you use different collars for each disclipline. I use a standard snake collar for showing, and a nylon one for Rally. Different leashes too.

 

[corbinam]

For what it's worth, I think your puppy looks good right now, in those photos.

I think you have more to gain (practice for puppy, practice for you, socialization) than to lose at this point. Dog people generally aren't downright mean, especially if you're a novice. Just go and do your puppy up and show her. It should be obvious to people that this is your first show puppy and that you are doing your best.

If she is nicely made and nicely trained, she may do well, even if she doesn't have a lot of coat.

You will also gain a lot by being at the show and just watching the dogs being judged. Go ahead and watch the other breeds, too. Hang out. Every dog you look at is a tiny piece of data added to what will become your ability to evaluate. This ability takes a lot of data to build, so I encourage you to take every opportunity you can.

PS. Chris, you seriously flatter me. I don't know that I merit inclusion in that list, but I'm touched that you think I do!

Thanks so much for this! I'm totally thrilled you think she looks nice! She is just petite and naked, which is a tough combo at her age. We're still crossing our fingers that she makes it to 13.5". She's 12.25" at 21 weeks.

But she does have a really nice outline and she LOVES to show. In our class I'm constantly amazed at her focus. Our instructor keeps telling me what a nice job I'm doing wit her and I'm just as awed as he is!

Corbinam, Just wondering...

I know the goal in obedience is to have the dog heal at your side and always sit when you stop.
Confirmation dogs need to run in from of you and never sit!

Seems like totally contradictory to me and therefore confusing to the dog... thoughts?

I think that the dogs learn their jobs in different environments. To put it differently, I should be able to heel my dog around a set of agility obstacles without them going nuts or taking them, and then with a different set up, or word, or action, they should run over/through them.

But the harder answer is yes--it can definitely cross over. Especially as they're learning. I don't do formal obedience training, but in all performance sports it's important to have eye contact. Our biggest issue in the breed ring now is that Elise wants to look at me. It's hard to discourage because a) yay eye contact and b) she's adorable (lol!) but she's learning that when she has on that slip lead and I use certain cues, I don't need her to look at me.

 

[corbinam]

And thanks to everyone for their input and encouragement! It's absolutely about having fun with Elise, but if I didn't want to do well I'd just put on a fake show in my backyard and invite my parents (BLUE RIBBONS FOR EVERYONE!) So there is a little bit of pressure there. Plus, like Gloria, I do have somewhat of a thin skin.

One more question for the experienced folks like @Ann and @tofu pup ... what do you think of the Novice/Amateur class? I've had people tell me absolutely avoid at all costs because you won't be taken seriously and it will follow you forever that you did it once, and then I had someone (our instructor) tell me that I should do it as people will then be kinder and know I'm still learning.

 

[tofu pup]

One more question for the experienced folks like @Ann and @tofu pup ... what do you think of the Novice/Amateur class? I've had people tell me absolutely avoid at all costs because you won't be taken seriously and it will follow you forever that you did it once, and then I had someone (our instructor) tell me that I should do it as people will then be kinder and know I'm still learning.

I don't really see an advantage. Don't take this the wrong way, but whatever class you are in, the judge will most likely be able to tell that you are brand-new and will be kind. (The idea that "it will follow you forever" sounds absurd, but maybe people have especially long memories in your area?)

I think the greater risks are that 1) you will always be the only one in the novice/amateur class and 2) you will lose the opportunity to signal your puppy's age. More below:

1. If you are the only one in your class, your time in the ring will go by VERY fast. You and your puppy will not have time to take advantage of the opportunity to be in the ring and to relax while the other entries are being examined. You are much more likely to have one or more other puppies in your class if you enter in her appropriate age class.

2. One of the reasons we have age-restricted classes is to communicate the age of our puppies. Another reason is to spare the puppies from being judged against fully mature dogs. By showing her in her age class, you assure the judge that yes, this puppy is age-appropriate, and you give Elise the chance to compete against puppies who may be at a similar developmental stage.

 

[Ann]

I agree with Megan, Ashley. I would stick with the puppy classes while she's eligible for them. It may give you some competition in your age group -- frequently here, you'll still be the single class entry but that does get you a ticket to the Winners class where you're with other dogs which, as Megan points out, gives you and Elise a chance to enjoy the experience. I don't recall ever seeing entries in the Novice class so I don't think it's used much. I've used the Am Bred class when I had a dog I didn't feel was ready for Open but that's after you age out of puppy classes. By the time Elise ages out of puppy classes at 18 months, you'll both be ready for the big time!

 

[Piper's mom]

Thanks so much for this! I'm totally thrilled you think she looks nice! She is just petite and naked, which is a tough combo at her age. We're still crossing our fingers that she makes it to 13.5". She's 12.25" at 21 weeks.

But she does have a really nice outline and she LOVES to show. In our class I'm constantly amazed at her focus. Our instructor keeps telling me what a nice job I'm doing wit her and I'm just as awed as he is!



I think that the dogs learn their jobs in different environments. To put it differently, I should be able to heel my dog around a set of agility obstacles without them going nuts or taking them, and then with a different set up, or word, or action, they should run over/through them.

But the harder answer is yes--it can definitely cross over. Especially as they're learning. I don't do formal obedience training, but in all performance sports it's important to have eye contact. Our biggest issue in the breed ring now is that Elise wants to look at me. It's hard to discourage because a) yay eye contact and b) she's adorable (lol!) but she's learning that when she has on that slip lead and I use certain cues, I don't need her to look at me.

Ironic Corbinam...your hoping Elise is big enough and my issue is that Finnie may be too big! Had him measured today and he's already 14" at 5 months and 1 week. He's already bigger than Piper! Funny because he was on the smaller side as a pup and 10" at 10 weeks but lately has just shot up!

 

[corbinam]

Ironic Corbinam...your hoping Elise is big enough and my issue is that Finnie may be too big! Had him measured today and he's already 14" at 5 months and 1 week. He's already bigger than Piper! Funny because he was on the smaller side as a pup and 10" at 10 weeks but lately has just shot up!

I don't know if it's any consolation since it depends on the line, but my Lexi was 14" at 22 weeks, and ended up at 15.5". She's a really nice size. I kept telling her breeder she was charting to be over, but she assured me that the line just grew early.

Elise is now 12.75" at 23 weeks, and while I'm not celebrating yet, I'm feeling more hopeful!

Hang in there, we'll keep our fingers crossed for each other!

 

[SheepOfBlue]

I can only put it in racing thoughts.....
Yes I have been encouraged to take my 'Supersport' spec bike out with the 'Superstocks' as it will help the grid sizes and 'no one would protest' Of course I know that is true until I start hitting top 3 all the time or the Grand National Finals. But it could have also meant more seat time and potentially faster me until the protests start.

As to what they think LOL I DON'T CARE! If you think she and you benefit from the experience show her. Everyone was a rookie once and someone always takes last. But if you want to stay last never try. As to the long term political impact I have zero idea as while there are some minor politics in racing there is mostly mind games and those can be intense (and fun).

Oh and you are doing it for fun right? Or are you thinking of starting a kennel? If for fun then bang there is the answer 'is it fun to do'.

Good luck and of course there is always f l y b a l l or being a pet as Spitfire is (though an evil trouble making one)

 

[Piper's mom]

I don't know if it's any consolation since it depends on the line, but my Lexi was 14" at 22 weeks, and ended up at 15.5". She's a really nice size. I kept telling her breeder she was charting to be over, but she assured me that the line just grew early.

Elise is now 12.75" at 23 weeks, and while I'm not celebrating yet, I'm feeling more hopeful!

Hang in there, we'll keep our fingers crossed for each other!

It's funny because Finnie's sire is Piper's brother and Piper is only 13 3/4" (I kinda like the smaller size lol) however, the sire is 16" tall. I'm hoping Finnie will stay in size (he was one of the smallest as a pup and exactly 10" at 10 weeks). Hopefully his growth will slow.
I don't think you have anything to worry about, I'm sure Elise will grow more!

 

[k9kreationz]

I had to chuckle at this post Ashley, mostly because this is how we all sounded, what, 9 years ago? Starting out in agility. How many of us posted about how scary AKC was because we heard about how mean everyone is and yeah, it basically scared many of us. Then we started competing in AKC, and even USDAA (where I was told it's worse than AKC because they're super competitive) and yet, we enjoyed it. We met some AWESOME people. Some, not so much. You started to realize that people would give unsolicited advice but you learned to ask people you trusted before changing your training.

So, hang in there, realize that yes, you're a noob. Maybe some will be mean because they might just be a bit jealous and worried that once Elise matures, she'll start beating their dog...and others will be super helpful. You'll eventually find your "conformation group", just like you did with agility. Remember what it was like back in the day with agility, realize you're older, stronger, and know when to take advice, when not to, and when to ask your mentor.

Elise is so adorable, especially in her coyote stage. I miss Koji's coyote stage, haha. She's going to be gorgeous either way though. Good luck and keep your chin up!