Toby, the Reactive Rescue

I don't know how the safe the ingredients are... but what about comfort zone? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3307%2011260%2013043&pcatid=13043

I've tried a similar pheromone spray and it didn't help. I'm also not sure how useful a plug in would be, I'd have to get several and place them all over the house, which could get costly. Plus for most things its too expensive to order from the states now. I think there may be other brands that make DAP, so I'll ask my trainer about it also.
 
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Any chance the person who put him in rescue was using a dog whistle to 'train' maybe. I would think wind inside would generate high pitch sounds coming in house leaks. Though it might just be him. Dow would not go in his dog house that I paid good money for when in school (yes less groceries for an unused doghouse :mad:) I finally figured out he did not like the wind blowing across it. On cold and calm days he would go in when he got older. Rain didn't bother him so he stayed out in it. Once I put it in next to the grill it was OK since there was no wind. Fortunately Sca is either, happy, ecstatic or sleeping :lol:
 
I DID put him in a down, it didn't make a difference. I didn't talk, yell or get upset. As soon as I realized how frantic Toby was I reached for his collar and put him in a down. He kept yelping over the noise and trying to run, so I tried reaching for the oven mit with one hand to fan the smoke detector while I tried to keep him in the down, since he wasn't calming down. I did the BEST I could in a BAD, situation, made worse by my dh, who wasn't trying to be helpful by keeping calm, btw. He was annoyed with the smoke detector and Toby (He doesn't understand Toby has anxiety), so instead he just stood there and ignore me struggling to calm Toby and turn of the smoke detector, then complained about it afterward.

Allowing Toby to run around the house when he's in a panic does not calm him down, it just feeds his anxiety more. Instead of gradually calming he finds more things to be upset about. I've tried every approach I can think of to deal with this or let him deal with it.

Putting him in a down usually helps (except with the smoke detector) but its not always enough. He'll lie at alert and look for things that are scary, then pop up and carry on. Massaging his neck/pulling at his scruff seems to be the only thing to snap him out of that panicked state, which is why I do it.

Maybe you're right, maybe he needs to be medicated on these days. He's not like this every day though and I'm hesitant to medicate him on a daily basis. Some days are completely fine with minimal freak outs, if any. Then other days he's a nervous wreck.

I didn't mean to upset you and I wasn't trying to be mean. Its just that with my dog that have similar issues, after 2 yrs of trying everything that is what worked.

I miss understood what your DH was doing. Him getting mad and irritated does not help and then complaining afterwards helps no one. It really upsets you and then Toby. Certainly you know Toby the best and are there with him and can see what is working vs not. Again sorry. I was only trying to help.
 
I didn't mean to upset you and I wasn't trying to be mean. Its just that with my dog that have similar issues, after 2 yrs of trying everything that is what worked.

I miss understood what your DH was doing. Him getting mad and irritated does not help and then complaining afterwards helps no one. It really upsets you and then Toby. Certainly you know Toby the best and are there with him and can see what is working vs not. Again sorry. I was only trying to help.

I know you're not trying to be mean, I'm just frustrated in general and wasn't explaining everything fully I guess. Sorry if I came off angry, I'm not.

That being said, Toby has been good as gold since Monday, hardly any barking at all and no anxiety attacks. It also hasn't been windy. He's making me feel like I imagined the whole thing.

I'm looking forward to a private lesson with our trainer to discuss these things. He was such a wreck. :(

The only other problem I'm having with him now is checking out the tabletops and counters and not wanting to come to me or come inside when let out (He tries the 'chase me' game). Luckily he doesn't want to be by himself so he gives up pretty quickly. :rolleyes2:
 
That being said, Toby has been good as gold since Monday, hardly any barking at all and no anxiety attacks. It also hasn't been windy. He's making me feel like I imagined the whole thing.

I'm looking forward to a private lesson with our trainer to discuss these things. He was such a wreck. :(

The only other problem I'm having with him now is checking out the tabletops and counters and not wanting to come to me or come inside when let out (He tries the 'chase me' game). Luckily he doesn't want to be by himself so he gives up pretty quickly. :rolleyes2:

I can hear the frustration, anxiety (and maybe a bit of defeat) in your words. Do you think that maybe he's picking up on that too? If he's sensitive to things... he might be ultra sensitive to your moods/feelings/reactions. I'm sure you've thought of it already... but I just thought I'd throw it out there... maybe you could try some calming techniques for yourself and they would transfer down to Toby. ~*~*~Calm Vibes~*~*~ comin' at ya!!! :cool:
 
oh, those windy days in Windy City... I hate them, not only my dogs but I am restless and just waiting it over... those are days when I put Gentle leader on Che because he is impossible to walk...
Che is also countersurfer extraordinaire, because he is tall, nothing safe from him... we tried to be mean about it but it is just too much work:(
so we just put everything far away...
nip that "chase me" thing in the bud- leads to too many problems later on, even if you have to get out put a long leash on him and rile him in...
What works well with Che is hide and seek game or even mentioning " where is daddy/ mommy/ insert whatever/ he goes immediately on alert and starts looking. We trained him by hiding his dinner to search around the house.
Also if there are things Toby is absolutely maniac about like we have yoga double bell rings, very special sound, Che goes ballistic over it- so that is good recall cue...
 
I can hear the frustration, anxiety (and maybe a bit of defeat) in your words. Do you think that maybe he's picking up on that too? If he's sensitive to things... he might be ultra sensitive to your moods/feelings/reactions. I'm sure you've thought of it already... but I just thought I'd throw it out there... maybe you could try some calming techniques for yourself and they would transfer down to Toby. ~*~*~Calm Vibes~*~*~ comin' at ya!!! :cool:

I've been thinking about putting his gentle leader on him in the house when his anxiety is bad. I just don't like doing it, I like him to be free. I feel like I'm punishing him, even though I know that I'm not. :rolleyes2:

I usually manage to be calm with Toby but yes, I'm sure he picked up on my frustration on the last day when his barking was at its worst. Its hard to stay calm after 3 days of having the pants scared off me by his sudden frantic barking. :no:

My Mother dropped by the house today to let the dogs out for me. For the first time she experienced Toby's panic, this time over a garbage truck going by. She was completely shocked by his anxiety, and worried that she wouldn't be able to get him back into his crate. Poor Toby was panic stricken.

oh, those windy days in Windy City... I hate them, not only my dogs but I am restless and just waiting it over... those are days when I put Gentle leader on Che because he is impossible to walk...
Che is also countersurfer extraordinaire, because he is tall, nothing safe from him... we tried to be mean about it but it is just too much work:(
so we just put everything far away...
nip that "chase me" thing in the bud- leads to too many problems later on, even if you have to get out put a long leash on him and rile him in...
What works well with Che is hide and seek game or even mentioning " where is daddy/ mommy/ insert whatever/ he goes immediately on alert and starts looking. We trained him by hiding his dinner to search around the house.
Also if there are things Toby is absolutely maniac about like we have yoga double bell rings, very special sound, Che goes ballistic over it- so that is good recall cue...

Toby has a fairly decent recall (considering I've had in for a month and a half), just not in our back yard. I think he just wants to play chase with me like he does the dogs, I don't think he even realizes he's being bad. He' is EXTREMELY willing to please and just eats up even the smallest praise.

I've taken him hiking off leash and at the park and he's ALWAYS returned to me. I'm not too concerned at this point, if I turn my back and ignore him or if I go inside and leave him, he immediately gives up.

We're doing obedience with him and slowly starting work on recalls, so I'll concentrate on it more as the class progresses.

 
Toby has a fairly decent recall (considering I've had in for a month and a half) said:
just probably shows that he is comfortable at your home and still unsure about rest of the world.
 
Any chance the person who put him in rescue was using a dog whistle to 'train' maybe. I would think wind inside would generate high pitch sounds coming in house leaks. Though it might just be him. Dow would not go in his dog house that I paid good money for when in school (yes less groceries for an unused doghouse :mad:) I finally figured out he did not like the wind blowing across it. On cold and calm days he would go in when he got older. Rain didn't bother him so he stayed out in it. Once I put it in next to the grill it was OK since there was no wind. Fortunately Sca is either, happy, ecstatic or sleeping :lol:

Sorry I missed this earlier. I don't think there is a chance he was ever trained with a whistle, he'd had not training at all prior to entering the sheltie rescue, from what I was told.

No real 'house leaks,' but we live across the street from a park so the wind blasts quite hard, rattling windows, whistling in branches and things and sending debris flying. Even though its fairly air tight and sound proof for an old house, I've never heard the wind sound so loud, I assume because of the open area in front of us.
 
I had a private lesson with our trainer, but it was more of a talk. I sent to her a point form list of all of the things with Toby that I wasn't sure how to deal with. It was quite a long list. :o

Firstly, I think we've come up with a probable cause of his anxiety. Toby came from a puppy mill in the states and was shipped over the Us/Canada border in what was probably a big truck full of puppies. That would definitely account for his fear of metalic sounds and truck engines and starting. He was probably shipped during one of his fear stages and it scarred him emotionally.

As for training, in a nutshell, I'm not doing anything completely wrong, which was a big relief. I explained to her that I realize that as far as a rescue is concerned, that Toby is pretty near perfect, but that I wanted to make sure that I was dealing with his anxiety correctly since I've never had to deal with anything like this before. I didn't want to have to undo anything I might be doing wrong. :rolleyes2:

When I'm working with him outside I'd stopped giving him treats as a reward and instead only gave him verbal rewards. After talking to my trainer I think I'm going to return to giving him treats to reinforce appropriate behavior.

For inside anxiety she suggested a couple of other things to try. She suggested when he's afraid to give him a different outlet other than running around in a panic and barking. She suggested teaching him a hand touch so that when he's afraid, he can touch my hand and get praise instead. I'm half way there with this one, as I've taught him how to hit a target and was treating him for the look command outside.

She also suggested I try a thundershirt, which she's heard of some people having success with, as well as rescue remedy and TTouch ( both also suggested by some of our forum members). She demonstrated TTouch to me and gave me some printouts about it to try with him.

I'm feeling much more positive now that I have some more ideas to try, and I'm really excited to get a couple of thundershirts; I think that Ginny would benefit from one too. I'm going to try and get some rescue remedy tonight.

Another good thing that happened last night was that Toby acted up at class and actually demonstrated some of his anxiety. It was small in comparison to what I often deal with (I told the trainer to multiply that display by 10), but my trainer was at least able to see how he's reacting and that I'm in fact NOT causing his anxiety because I'm not able to anticipate what will set him off. What relief to finally be able to prove that one. :smile2:

I really hope we can get his anxiety under control. My trainer said that he may always have anxiety, which I already realized, I just hope we can get it under control enough so that he can be a therapy dog. Or at the very least so that his quality of life is better.
 
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