Tone of voice vs. yelling

The other thing I would worry about in this training environment is stress. You would be amazed at how stressful yelling can be to a dog or how illness can be brought on by it.
I didn't object when the vet growled loudly at Tinsel during the painful ear exam. He was snapping at the vet and after the growl he stopped. Yes, he was scared but he can't continue to snap when he is scared or in pain. It was an exception so it worked well. If I did it all the time he would probably ignore it.
A wise horseman once chided me for raising my voice constantly to Kassy when she wouldn't stand in cross ties. He said "Joanne, if you are going to raise your voice all the time don't expect her to listen. Save it for the important times." It made a lasting impresssion that I have used on all sorts of animals now with consistant results. In the old days when I did obedience school were there might be 15 dogs in a class I did have to nearly yell when doing a group recall but refused to do it for anything else. Be your dog's advocate.
 
I told you to consider taking Olive out of this training environment and now I am faced with the same thing. Tinsel hasn't even been to a lesson, just a small dog drop in for socialization and after attending and listening to the trainer during lesson 1 - you know the one that the dog's don't come to - I am so upset that he won't be attending at all. I told this wingnut his background and that I wanted to get him exposed to more people and dogs, which she seemed to be on board with, before paying $300 and now I find out that she has a rule that the dogs are not to interact with anyone other than the owner while in the obedience hall. I asked her for a refund, tactfully, and she sent me a 3 page email of why she is the best trainer in the world and that I was probably unable to understand her methods as I basically don't know anything. After all, she saw him for 1/2 an hour and she had already decided that he wasn't a dog that had shut down and that I knew nothing. According to her, dogs don't like going for walks, dog people don't walk their dogs and if the group of people in the class, there was about 80 attendees, had 10 acres they wouldn't walk their dogs. I actually challenged her on that. I told her I do have 10 acres and my dogs get walked anyway and not just on the property but in town and on trails. She said I should pinch Tinsel in the flank to get his attention, oh my Lord it goes on and on. Oh, no prong collars etc but the rescue she has had for less than 3 weeks was in a crate wearing a bark collar. So, I lose $300, Tinsel will have to wait until after Christmas to get back into a training facility and I have to regain some sense of composure. Pretty frustrating isn't it???
 
Tagg said:
I told you to consider taking Olive out of this training environment and now I am faced with the same thing. Tinsel hasn't even been to a lesson, just a small dog drop in for socialization and after attending and listening to the trainer during lesson 1 - you know the one that the dog's don't come to - I am so upset that he won't be attending at all. I told this wingnut his background and that I wanted to get him exposed to more people and dogs, which she seemed to be on board with, before paying $300 and now I find out that she has a rule that the dogs are not to interact with anyone other than the owner while in the obedience hall. I asked her for a refund, tactfully, and she sent me a 3 page email of why she is the best trainer in the world and that I was probably unable to understand her methods as I basically don't know anything. After all, she saw him for 1/2 an hour and she had already decided that he wasn't a dog that had shut down and that I knew nothing. According to her, dogs don't like going for walks, dog people don't walk their dogs and if the group of people in the class, there was about 80 attendees, had 10 acres they wouldn't walk their dogs. I actually challenged her on that. I told her I do have 10 acres and my dogs get walked anyway and not just on the property but in town and on trails. She said I should pinch Tinsel in the flank to get his attention, oh my Lord it goes on and on. Oh, no prong collars etc but the rescue she has had for less than 3 weeks was in a crate wearing a bark collar. So, I lose $300, Tinsel will have to wait until after Christmas to get back into a training facility and I have to regain some sense of composure. Pretty frustrating isn't it???
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are you serious???
That IS disgusting, why oh why could she not tell you this before you forked out the money first of all... That is unprofessional and unethical, just even from a business perspective! Nevermind the ridiculous thought of dogs with bark collar in a CRATE :eek2: Even worse to think she'd have you break your hard earned trust and understanding with Tinsel in a heartbeat, undo your months and months of relationship building, oh that boils my blood.
SO glad that you DO know your stuff, that you are a knowledgeable guardian of your dog! Regardless of what the wingnut had to say, Tinsel is one lucky dog to have you as his protector! It makes me so sad to think of people who trust these so called professionals who have no credentials other than maybe a couple of titles painfully achieved by manhandling their dogs...
 
If Tinsel was a "normal" dog I would take him and be the most disruptive questioning student in the class but I know that my tension would go directly down the lead and undo months of work with him.
It's scary to think that there were so many people at that class, most of them with their 1st dog and getting this info from her. She is voted #1 trainer for the past 15 years don't you know!!! And trust me, it's all over her van and she repeats that constantly to the masses. Let me tell you how that works. You get someone, could be yourself, to nominate you and it goes in the newspaper. Then you get everyone to repeatedly vote for you. If it was at all accurate my nephew should be wealthy as his bar band was voted #1 country band in the area. His groupies voted over 100 times each, not to mention his other family and friends. I'm not impressed but I did have an understanding from someone that I thought would know that she was good. Oops , my mistake eh???? Thanks for your support.
 
Tagg said:
I told you to consider taking Olive out of this training environment and now I am faced with the same thing. Tinsel hasn't even been to a lesson, just a small dog drop in for socialization and after attending and listening to the trainer during lesson 1 - you know the one that the dog's don't come to - I am so upset that he won't be attending at all. I told this wingnut his background and that I wanted to get him exposed to more people and dogs, which she seemed to be on board with, before paying $300 and now I find out that she has a rule that the dogs are not to interact with anyone other than the owner while in the obedience hall. I asked her for a refund, tactfully, and she sent me a 3 page email of why she is the best trainer in the world and that I was probably unable to understand her methods as I basically don't know anything. After all, she saw him for 1/2 an hour and she had already decided that he wasn't a dog that had shut down and that I knew nothing. According to her, dogs don't like going for walks, dog people don't walk their dogs and if the group of people in the class, there was about 80 attendees, had 10 acres they wouldn't walk their dogs. I actually challenged her on that. I told her I do have 10 acres and my dogs get walked anyway and not just on the property but in town and on trails. She said I should pinch Tinsel in the flank to get his attention, oh my Lord it goes on and on. Oh, no prong collars etc but the rescue she has had for less than 3 weeks was in a crate wearing a bark collar. So, I lose $300, Tinsel will have to wait until after Christmas to get back into a training facility and I have to regain some sense of composure. Pretty frustrating isn't it???
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I'm new to the obedience thing, but have plenty of experience re-couping rotts and pitts from abusive/fighting homes. If I took even the least-affected dog I've worked with to a class where I was told to pinch in the flank, not only would I have a large bill from the emergency room, but I'd be left with a dog with a possibly permanent distrust and fear of classroom situations. Sooooo glad you left!

The trainer sticking you with bill doesn't surprise me much. She has to make money somehow, and it probably isn't happening through repeat customers...
 
Update:

I've decided to pull Olive out of the class. I appreciate the comments all of you have given as they were very helpful in making this decision. I'm going to still work with her every day, and instead of going to class once a week, we're going to take "field trips" to different places for socialization and just to get Olive out in the world beyond our yard and neighborhood. We'll hit the pet supply stores, parks, cider mill (although the bonus is equal there for me!:winkgrin:), a few of the historic old downtown areas.

I'm going to check out the new club on Thursday. Hopefully I'll be able to observe a class and talk to a few trainers. New classes don't start until January but we'll be there. Hopefully by then we'll be solid enough on the basics that we can go right into the intermediate class. CGC is after that if all goes well! :fl
 
celloyogi said:
I'm new to the obedience thing, but have plenty of experience re-couping rotts and pitts from abusive/fighting homes. If I took even the least-affected dog I've worked with to a class where I was told to pinch in the flank, not only would I have a large bill from the emergency room, but I'd be left with a dog with a possibly permanent distrust and fear of classroom situations. Sooooo glad you left!

The trainer sticking you with bill doesn't surprise me much. She has to make money somehow, and it probably isn't happening through repeat customers...
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what an excellent point!!
 
celloyogi said:
Update:

I've decided to pull Olive out of the class. I appreciate the comments all of you have given as they were very helpful in making this decision. I'm going to still work with her every day, and instead of going to class once a week, we're going to take "field trips" to different places for socialization and just to get Olive out in the world beyond our yard and neighborhood. We'll hit the pet supply stores, parks, cider mill (although the bonus is equal there for me!:winkgrin:), a few of the historic old downtown areas.

I'm going to check out the new club on Thursday. Hopefully I'll be able to observe a class and talk to a few trainers. New classes don't start until January but we'll be there. Hopefully by then we'll be solid enough on the basics that we can go right into the intermediate class. CGC is after that if all goes well! :fl
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Good for you. Sounds like a really good plan. :biggrin2:
 
Tagg said:
If Tinsel was a "normal" dog I would take him and be the most disruptive questioning student in the class but I know that my tension would go directly down the lead and undo months of work with him.
It's scary to think that there were so many people at that class, most of them with their 1st dog and getting this info from her. She is voted #1 trainer for the past 15 years don't you know!!! And trust me, it's all over her van and she repeats that constantly to the masses. Let me tell you how that works. You get someone, could be yourself, to nominate you and it goes in the newspaper. Then you get everyone to repeatedly vote for you. If it was at all accurate my nephew should be wealthy as his bar band was voted #1 country band in the area. His groupies voted over 100 times each, not to mention his other family and friends. I'm not impressed but I did have an understanding from someone that I thought would know that she was good. Oops , my mistake eh???? Thanks for your support.
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Time to report this training facility to the Better Business Bureau.

I'd be spitting bullets too.
 
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