Trainers that use shock collars exist??

We have a strange situation here because the government in Wales banned the use of shock collars about 18 months ago but they are still legal in England, Scotland and Northern Ireland. The UK Kennel Club (and other organisations) campaigned extremely hard to get them banned throughout the UK and recently the case was put forward for consideration. However although there was consensus that these collars can inflict pain, they were not banned on the basis that they could be effective in experienced and knowledgeble hands.
I will accept that is probably the case and in some situations with some dogs and used by someone who is knowledgeble and competent, they can be effective The problem is that anyone can buy one of these devices without proving that they have any kind of knowledge or training at all and subsequently use them in a totally inappropriate manner. I watch novice owners at our club who struggle with the very basics and would shudder to think of them owning a shock collar, administering the 'zap' at completely the wrong moment etc. I would not contemplate for one minute using one myself (even if I agreed with the principal) because I do not consider I have the necessary expertise.

I have seen several dogs with shock collars and one I have known since puppyhood. When wearing the collar he is a subdued and sadder animal than without it. I have never seen anyone using these devices 'correctly' but only as a form of punishment which the dog isn't able to associate with his mistake. This leads to a dog which may appear to be under better control but is actually just too confused to do anything very much. I conceed they may have a use as a deterrent but as a training aid - no. You could teach a child not to go near the fire by giving it a smack each time but you couldn't teach it the alphabet by the same approach.
Yes it is possible to misuse any 'tool' however mild, but the more severe the tool, the greater the consequences will be of misuse.
 
Not a fan of shock collars. They should only be used as a last resort on an aggressive dog that has a history and that other, better training methods is having no effect on. In fact, I would euthanize if I felt I had to go this route. I've trained dogs of various breeds and temperaments, some with overexuberance, some aggression issues and/ or lacking social skills, small and large but have never resorted to using a shock collar or a prong collar even though one or the other was suggested by "trainers". I don't consider myself a trainer as I am not paid to do this - just fairly intuitive in working with animals.
I also don't believe that any dog, kid, horse etc. can be trained with 100% positive reinforcement but the amount of negative has to be as minimal as you can make it. A wise horse trainer hearing me speak sharply to my mare as she would not stay still in cross ties told me to cut it out, use my voice levels wisely or she would just learn to tune me out. It was a very valuable lesson. Tin knows that if I say UH UH, something he rarely hears, he is to stop immediately. He is interupted, not frightened but to the purist, this is a negative. If I gave him a "buzz" with a shock collar, he would be acting out of fright - just like if a bee buzzes your head. That is totally unacceptable to me.
 
Well, my experience is thus. I took Sammy to a trainer highly recommended by my local Sheltie Rescue. Sammy lunges at cars and other moving things...I'm learning that that's what you call "reactive". She went straight to the wall where she had her collars and said, "Hmm... I don't think we'll need the prong collar, but we'll use the choke." So she put it on him. She really didn't have to use it because he didn't react to anything in a strange environment. He saves it all for his home turf, I guess! I will say this, though. From my research on the web it seems that there are quite a few trainers who use these techniques. It is confusing to someone like me. I have had dogs all my life, but this is the first one who has presented me with these challenges, the little stinker!

By the way, he figured out on his own to distinguish between his toys...which is the orange ball, which is the "little ball", which is the frisbee, which is his "raggedy toy", and so on. Pretty smart, huh? Janet
 
Psalms said:
Well, my experience is thus. I took Sammy to a trainer highly recommended by my local Sheltie Rescue. Sammy lunges at cars and other moving things...I'm learning that that's what you call "reactive". She went straight to the wall where she had her collars and said, "Hmm... I don't think we'll need the prong collar, but we'll use the choke." So she put it on him. She really didn't have to use it because he didn't react to anything in a strange environment. He saves it all for his home turf, I guess! I will say this, though. From my research on the web it seems that there are quite a few trainers who use these techniques. It is confusing to someone like me. I have had dogs all my life, but this is the first one who has presented me with these challenges, the little stinker!

By the way, he figured out on his own to distinguish between his toys...which is the orange ball, which is the "little ball", which is the frisbee, which is his "raggedy toy", and so on. Pretty smart, huh? Janet
Click to expand...

Hey that's a Sheltie for you, super smart :D
I don't recommend those collars, it can make the dog more reactive and more frustrated. It may seem like it works at first... but then gradually you end up increasing their pain each time, cuz they get used to it.. meanwhile fighting against it and thinking it's the cars or the other dogs that are triggering the pain his neck...

If that is the same trainer that recommended the can of coins, I encourage you to find a more positive trainer, you will enjoy that training experience more.. as will your pup
 
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I as well do not believe in shock collar training, but my 11 month old Sheltie has one problem I cannot overcome, and that is the recall problem. Nothing in the form of clicker training, whistles, etc. gets his attention for a recall. Once Storm has his mind on something, recall does not happen. When he was younger he would respond, but not now. Any ideas, I need something to get his attention, and most of all he is not food motoviated. If I can somehow get his attention, he will come.
 
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