Walking a three dog pack

[OntarioSheltie]

Well I sorta agree with you trainer to a point. I would start by taking each one for a short, short walk individually and when & only when they are each behaving correctly singley , then I would go to 2 dogs together and keeping the one more obvious trouble maker as the single for now, when that was working ok then bring in the third one.

That's how I have always worked with multiples, although sometimes its a one step forward 2 steps back process, sometimes the hardest thing is getting the arrangement order that works best sorted out. I usually try to keep the most difficult one to control in close to me and let the better behaved one have the
outside spot.

The trainer didn't mean to take each one out individually until each of their problems is resolved, she meant that I should NEVER walk them together, EVER. That is why I was so annoyed, she was just being ridiculous. Never walking them together ever is not a solution, its a bandaid fix and isn't an option, as far as I'm concerned.

They're not really so much of a problem when they're on their own, its when they're together, so walking them individually won't really help and

Hi

What exactly is the issue? Are they tugging? Leaping off in different directions? Barking at cars? Stopping and smelling the roses - together or individually? The solution depends on the actual problem.

One thing that might work is starting two by two, and keep switching out which two get to walk together. Once you've got the two's organized and behaving, introduce the third. By then they each will have walked with at least one other.

In getting the "two's" to walk together, I simply did not put up with nonsense.

I know alot of us don't like Caesar, but even before I ever watched Caesar, whenever I walked my dogs I intuitively had firm control of the leashes and a confident body language. I held them in one hand and twined my fingers to alternately give a little tug if one pup started to stray (kinda like a puppeteer). And if one pup decided to stop and sniff, I just kept on walking with a gentle tug and a "Let's go!"

Sadie lunges at people and Toby lunges at sounds that bother him. They're not lunging because they're over excited, they're lunging because they're anxious. Sadie is afraid of people we pass since she had her stroke and Toby is just an anxious dog.

I'm very confident with them, this isn't about dicipline this time, its about finding a different way to deal with their issues. Redirecting their behavior, as I mentioned above, has made a big difference, I just wondered if anyone had any other ideas that might help as well.

I don't think my dogs are perfect on walks, but they are fairly coordinated and only pull/bark at neighborhood children who are ill-mannered and like to call them by name (thus confusing them, so not really the pups fault).

I spent lots of time with Abbie alone on walks after we rescued her. When I would be short on time and bring them all out, I would be tempting fate. I can't tell you how many times I came inside last summer and lamented to DH, "I'm never walking your dog again!" Once I got over my frustration with HER (hey, I'm only human), things went better.

The main thing that helped was that I got better about verbal cues. If I turn, slow, go faster, I have a certain noise I make that means, "Pay attention." If I walk them in the morning and pause to get the paper, I make the noise and they automatically stop/slow down. It's amazing. Also, I pick the side of me that they will walk on and keep them there. Depending on their mood, the day, the weather, the surroundings, I want them to be able to walk on either side of me. Usually the two little boys on one side and big lady Abbie on the other, but there are time when Pierre has a Papillon-brain and is our pull-hound, so I'll keep the well behaved Shelties together.

Talking before a distraction helps. Huge praise for just looking at the distraction.

If you are having problems with your arm falling off while you walk them, I would take them out in pairs. Alternate so each gets enough exercise, but also, each dog will get a little 'alone' time and feel special.

The verbal cue idea is interesting, but I'm not sure if I completely understand it. Can you give me another example as to how you use it?

Pulling isn't really a problem. Toby is on a gentle leader and Sadie and Ginny don't really pull, per say. The lunging/reactivity only happens when they're upset about something, they otherwise don't drag me around.

Thanks for suggesting the alone time too, I always try to give each of them a little alone time every day.

 

[romeosangiovese]

If the distraction was really big I'd start to walk backwards and say 'Everybody Sit.' If they didn't go into sits I pulled up lightly on the leash until they did sit, then gave each one treats as they sat. Then I'd hold their attention with looks (if they looked away) or for continuing to sit.

I do this ALOT. And both my dogs and any foster I might have at the moment have to sit! It really helps to calm them down from whatever is pressing their buttons. I also randomly ask them to sit just for fun

When I walk with my dogs, I'm not too particular about heeling so long as they don't drag me around. So I fashioned a clip thingy with carabiners and a swivel clip to attach them to my waist (I love hands-free walking). The hook prevents the leashes from tangling. Usually, only my 2 will be clipped to me, and the third foster dog will be walked with me holding on to the leash so I have a bit more control. It helps if you walk them alone now and then to train their leash manners and general focus outdoors so that when you put them together, you don't go nuts.

 

[OntarioSheltie]

I do this ALOT. And both my dogs and any foster I might have at the moment have to sit! It really helps to calm them down from whatever is pressing their buttons. I also randomly ask them to sit just for fun

When I walk with my dogs, I'm not too particular about heeling so long as they don't drag me around. So I fashioned a clip thingy with carabiners and a swivel clip to attach them to my waist (I love hands-free walking). The hook prevents the leashes from tangling. Usually, only my 2 will be clipped to me, and the third foster dog will be walked with me holding on to the leash so I have a bit more control. It helps if you walk them alone now and then to train their leash manners and general focus outdoors so that when you put them together, you don't go nuts.

Thanks Michelle, good to know I'm doing something right and that what I'm doing works for someone else too.

Wow, I was thinking of doing EXACTLY that clip idea! I thought it would be a good way to free up my hands for threats.

I'm not to particular about them heeling either, so long as they're not dragging me. Its easier to let them walk a little ahead when you're trying to walk three of them.

I do make them sit and/or look at me when nothing is distracting them too, since I figure it reinforces the behavior I want and makes the experience more positive for them. I guess I just need to keep doing what I'm already doing.

 

[danisgoat]

When I walk my three, I use one leash with a coupler for Chloe and Dandie as they are friendly and do not spook easy and generally walk very well. I hold that leash in my left hand. In my right hand I hold Vinca. Vinca spooks, hates dogs, people, bikes, etc (gotta love my rescue though, lol) so I have her in my dominant, strong right hand so that I always have control of her on the leash. If I see something that is coming at us, I have them all sit, and I tell them how beautiful they are and have treats in my hand. The love their food, so they sit at attention and pay attention to me. Now if I am pyassing another not so well mannered dog, lunging and barking at them, I simply pick up Vinca and use my body to block my other two girls.

Not sure if this is a great way, but this is what works for me.

 

[OntarioSheltie]

When I walk my three, I use one leash with a coupler for Chloe and Dandie as they are friendly and do not spook easy and generally walk very well. I hold that leash in my left hand. In my right hand I hold Vinca. Vinca spooks, hates dogs, people, bikes, etc (gotta love my rescue though, lol) so I have her in my dominant, strong right hand so that I always have control of her on the leash. If I see something that is coming at us, I have them all sit, and I tell them how beautiful they are and have treats in my hand. The love their food, so they sit at attention and pay attention to me. Now if I am pyassing another not so well mannered dog, lunging and barking at them, I simply pick up Vinca and use my body to block my other two girls.

Not sure if this is a great way, but this is what works for me.

I have a two couplers that I've tried but it isn't really working for me. Toby is the worst so I've tried having him on his own, but Sadie and Ginny don't do well on the coupler together since Sadie would rather walk behind or in front of Ginny and Ginny competes with her.

Toby and Sadie are the best match but Toby is a bit too reactive still, which puts Sadie at risk of being knocked down. Perhaps I can couple them together some day, but not quite yet.

Having long leashes means I have a mess of leashes in my hands (which is annoying), but it also gives me control of the lengths of leashes. The dogs are never so out of control that I'm dropping the leashes.

 

[SheltieChe]

you have to define for yourself what are you looking for- to manage the situation or to train your dogs to behave differently on their walk...
managing situation would be playing with leashes length, clipping leashes to your belt, walking only certain time of a day or night when there is no distractions around...
to train dogs to loose leash walking you will need to do it separately, unfortunately from what you describe there is too many issues in your pack of 3 to do it any other way, finding class and/ or trainer behaviorist that will work with your gang's particular issues would be great help.
Rereading Control unleashed might help you get some insight too
also this is an article from Susanne Clothier collection with few good pointers
http://flyingdogpress.com/content/view/33/97/

 

[OntarioSheltie]

you have to define for yourself what are you looking for- to manage the situation or to train your dogs to behave differently on their walk...
managing situation would be playing with leashes length, clipping leashes to your belt, walking only certain time of a day or night when there is no distractions around...
to train dogs to loose leash walking you will need to do it separately, unfortunately from what you describe there is too many issues in your pack of 3 to do it any other way, finding class and/ or trainer behaviorist that will work with your gang's particular issues would be great help.
Rereading Control unleashed might help you get some insight too
also this is an article from Susanne Clothier collection with few good pointers
http://flyingdogpress.com/content/view/33/97/

I thought I had? Sorry if I'm being unclear and not explaining myself properly. I'm not concerned with making them heel beside me, I'd just like to accomplish walking with them without them feeling so anxious and feeding off of each other's anxiety.

I'd been making them all heel at the same time but I realized a few days ago that its just not working, the sidewalks just aren't wide enough for 3 dogs and a person.

So lately I've started allowing Sadie to walk in front of me a couple of feet, with Ginny slightly ahead and Toby right beside me.

While Sadie does not pull, she gets anxious walking by people and will growl, bark and lunge when she is afraid.

Toby does want to pull, but the gentle leader keeps him from doing so. He will bark, growl, lunge and spin when he's afraid, similar to Sadie only worse. This too is something I'm working on correcting.

When Sadie and/or Toby are frightened, their carrying on gets all three of them going. Redirecting their behavior in the way I described above is helping a lot, but I wondered if anyone had any other ideas on how to help them with their anxiety.

 

[OntarioSheltie]

SheltieChe, I just read the article and I don't think it quite applies to the issues with my pack the majority of the time, although I've been using the redirection technique described. The only thing I haven't been doing is 'physically changing the body position.' I do ask them to sit and keep the leash loose once they do but it had not occured to me to stroke stroke them to make their body positions more neutral. I'll have to try that.

Sadie and Toby almost never react when I think they will, they almost always catch me off guard. I don't think I'm giving them any cues by tensing up, because I'm not anticipating a reaction.

The one exception is with this really nasty neighbor I have. I KNOW I tense up when I pass her and my dogs always go crazy when she's around because I have such an intense dislike for her. I try really hard to act normal and pretend she's not there but she's made my life so difficult that I just can't help it. I try to correct my pack by redirecting them like I always do but at the same time I don't really mind that they bark/lunge at her, if it keeps her away from me and from saying nasty things to me. The jokes on her really, because if they actually DID get to her when they lunge and bark, they'd only lick her to death, especially Toby who is the BIGGEST suck and LOVES everyone.

 

[mazzama06]

I try and walk my 3, but it is hard alone. Levi looks for cars and wants to chase them. Charlie is highly reactive. He will agressively grab the leash and violently shake it when he sees other dogs, kids on bikes or skateboards, cars slowly and leaving a stop sign, or a car pulling out of a driveway. He also goes absolutely crazy with agression when he sees contrails in the sky. His barking will get my Levi barking, and occasionally Lexi. I have Charlie enrolled in dog school, and they told me to get him a thundershirt to help with anxiety. So hopefully the more I walk this spring, the better it becomes.

I have used a coupler with Levi and Lexi and hold Charlie in the other hand. That works well, if there isn't any distractions. I try and have my daughter come with me as she walks Levi and I walk Lexi and Charlie.

 

[SheltieChe]

since I am dealing with somewhat similar problems I have been learning...
management is when you do not eliminate behavior but manage situation.... Che is big time countersurfer, I have installed baby gate in the kitchen, I did not eliminated his behavior but I have managed situation and reclaimed my kitchen back... training is when Che jumps at people he is trained to sit or down instead- we are substituting one behavior/ unwanted one/ for desired one... there is difference what are you trying to achieve which specifies your goals...
You are describing Sadie being human aggressive/ she lunges at people passing by/ on leash and have 10/10 stimulus for distractions and no regard for you/ see yea mommy gotta chase that furry rat deal/. You are describing Toby as having high auditory/ reacts to sounds/ and motion/car chaser/ reactive dog.
Now combine Sadie and Toby and you get Leo, who lunges at people, chases furry rats and is huge car chaser. Leo is HIGHLY motion sensitive and comes from very strong lines of herding dogs, so fast body movements drive him nuts, I would not be surprised that Sadie is same way... so while it is not true "aggression" in a way people would define the term... it still is...
what Leo is working on is auto check in which is different from putting dog into sit or down while cars passing by... when we work around distractions I am mindful of distance, duration and intensity of distraction...
I am also fast learning about one dog setting each other off... Che was never reactive to windshield wipers but Leo is... now Che is barking his fool's head off every time they on... my choice is either sit in a car with Che and feed him food and retrain him back to being insensitive to w/shield wipers motion/ training part/ or manage the situation by putting both dogs in a crates and cover crates with blankets so they can not see the movement...
So I would agree with your trainer... you can choose to manage the situation, walk your dogs at 5 am and after midnight when distractions at minimum/ everything quiet, no humans and very few cars/ or you can separate dogs and train individual behavior... so Toby chooses not to pay attention to the cars and noise and be rewarded by you and Sadie chooses to sit or down and wait for her reward when furry rat is running across...
Sorry for long post, I feel I am dealing with pretty similar issues and sometimes I feel pretty low when all my training goes step forward and two steps backward... there is light at the end of the tunnel though, sometimes on a good day I am even seeing it with my gang:sadsmile: