what is your preferred venue?

[ortegah]

I mainly compete in AKC and that is my preferred venue. It's just what I've done for so long

NADAC is just too odd for me. So few people, yet so many different kinds of runs and what exactly does a hoopers course show in the way of skill? In the standard runs they don't have a teeter or table and then they put rubber all over the obstacles they do have. I get being safe but it's a bit overboard in my opinion. The only thing I like about NADAC is the ability to run the standard course over again, but in the opposite direction.

USDAA I do like because even though I'm just starting out in it, I can still compete in the Grand Prix and Steeplechase and qualify for regional and national competition without investing years of qualifying since we're already competing at the excellent B level in AKC.

When my 10 year old daughter starts out, she's going to do a USDAA show first because she can do jumpers without having to stress out over the weaves. I plan on entering her in jumpers and gamblers.

As for CPE, I've never done it but it seems great for beginners.

 

[ortegah]

AKC:
--I see a lot of slow dogs in AKC. It frustrates me when a dog practically walking a course can qualify. I'm sure that makes me a snob, but it's hard to watch. A very famous handler once said, "I could heel my dog around a course and qualify, but what's the point?" That's how I feel. (I should also point out that there are some very good dogs in AKC, too. It's not all slow dogs. I just think there are more qualifying than there are in USDAA.)

--It's a long day. I've never done an AKC trial, so others can give a better idea of the timing...but it's a lot of waiting around.

Yes there are slow dogs in AKC but you won't see them qualify most of the time. I ran a slow dog for years. I ran my butt off and over and over again was over course time and therefore didn't qualify. When he retired he was 1 Q away from his MX and 2 away from his MXJ and guess how many points he had toward his MACH? 26 points! And we competed for 7 years to get there. But I can say there are plenty slower than him out there competing but rarely do I see them qualify in excellent. I guess you have more now that they have preferred, but USDAA has their performance division which is essentially the same thing.

As for show times, I'm normally done by 2-3pm on any given day with AKC. USDAA shows are unlimited so I'm not sure how you could say that AKC's days would be longer. I suppose if you enter more runs you are at least doing something but 2 or 3pm leaving is a good time in my opinion.

 

[corbinam]

As for show times, I'm normally done by 2-3pm on any given day with AKC. USDAA shows are unlimited so I'm not sure how you could say that AKC's days would be longer. I suppose if you enter more runs you are at least doing something but 2 or 3pm leaving is a good time in my opinion.

I must be mistaken. I thought I had heard that there is a lot of waiting around in AKC. But I have no experience so I could be wrong.

 

[HopeShelties]

Depends on the show. How large the entry is, how many rings there are, and how well the show is run affect the amount of waiting around there is. There are shows where I'm done by 1pm and others where I'm there until 6-7pm

 

[Silaria]

This is just an honest question, and I hope you don't take offense, but do you think running in a venue where Edan has to run constantly in extreme collection, and constantly be yanked around to make the course has had a negative effect on his speed? I have noticed since you have been doing more trialing in AKC and CPE, which are generally more open, his speed has seemed to increase quite a lot. Let's face it, a course that allows any dog to extend and run is always going to be more motivating for a dog than constantly being yanked around, which I think creates a cautious slower dog.

Honestly, I don't agree with this. There is another Sheltie, Molly, in our local TDAA regulars who I see at ever AKC trial I attend. She still runs a pretty quick run in AKC even though she runs TDAA. The reason she doesn't Q often is not speed but because she tends to be either "on" her game or "off" it. The days she's on, she's a beauty to watch.

Her handler and I joke that in TDAA we flip-flop who takes 1st or 2nd place all the time. Now that Edan's running Excellent AKC class he'll be running against Molly again so we'll see if that trend continues. (In our last CPE trial, CJ and Molly ran against one another and Pete, her handler, and I had a good laugh because Molly and CJ were flip flopping their placements like Molly and Edan do.)

 

[Sharon]

Venues

Honestly, I don't agree with this. There is another Sheltie, Molly, in our local TDAA regulars who I see at ever AKC trial I attend. She still runs a pretty quick run in AKC even though she runs TDAA. The reason she doesn't Q often is not speed but because she tends to be either "on" her game or "off" it. The days she's on, she's a beauty to watch.

Her handler and I joke that in TDAA we flip-flop who takes 1st or 2nd place all the time. Now that Edan's running Excellent AKC class he'll be running against Molly again so we'll see if that trend continues. (In our last CPE trial, CJ and Molly ran against one another and Pete, her handler, and I had a good laugh because Molly and CJ were flip flopping their placements like Molly and Edan do.)

What do you consider a pretty quick run by a sheltie?To me a dog being yanked around a tight course can not flat out run.A quick run to me is a jww course ran in 22 seconds and that is Rush running it.

 

[Silaria]

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this topic Sharon.

I'm not hijacking this thread to debate the pros and cons of TDAA and that is what is happening.

 

[k9kreationz]

I have competed in NADAC, CPE, USDAA, AKC, and have seen ASCA trials (they're like NADAC, so let's just say I've been in those too). I haven't tried DOCNA nor UKI. I think that's all of them, right?

I've trialed in NADAC and AKC the longest, but am the furthest in AKC. Except for NADAC and ASCA (which are a lot alike), all the other venues are sooo different.

I admit, I am running AKC for the titles. I'd probably enjoy USDAA more if my dog didn't have to run Preferred, as I'd want the challenge of a "normal" course. But due to his size, he'd have to jump 22" and I'm not doing that to his body.

The most fun days have been NADAC (ASCA), CPE, and USDAA. They have a lot of different games and that makes the day more interesting. You're also not sitting around for 8 hours only to do 2 runs like AKC. They also seem more like more laid-back venues. AKC trials, IMHO, are busy, crazy, and most people aren't too friendly because they're in serious competition mode. And wow, I'm sorry, but the ring stewards are usually the bitchiest of them all.

I think what venue a person should compete in depends on your dog's ability, your personality and competitive level. A couple of people have discussed TDAA and "yanking the dog around". But yet, I have seen long jumping Aussies who'd be "yanked around" on an AKC course, so they do only NADAC. So, not one venue is perfect for all dogs. My friend's dog may be a mini aussie, but she has to "yank" the dog around the AKC course too because he's a super long jumper. Yeah, he can make tight turns too, but she's still having to yank him off of everything in sight to keep him on line. That type of dog...would probably do better in USDAA or NADAC/ASCA.

My dog......he' not a long jumper, he can make tight turns. He's a velcro dog naturally, so we kinda sucked in NADAC. But I have been told Koji is the type of dog that can do "well" in ALL venue's. He may not excel in ONE venue, like some dogs, but I like that we could probably do well in all. Because.......

My ultimate goal is an AKC MACH. Once we're done there, I'll probably go to USDAA and start over. Once I'm "done" there, I'll go to CPE so Koji can have a ton more fun and enjoy ourselves. I don't know if we'll ever have the distance needed for NADAC or not. I'm competitive so I want a venue that I feel is competitive to me. I have no idea how competitive CPE is at higher levels, so I can't comment on that. NADAC isn't super competitive at higher levels, but it's not easy either.

Just my two cents and why I compete in the venue's I do. Oh, we started out in NADAC. I always tell people to start in CPE, is has a ton of positive reinforcement for beginners. NADAC/ASCA is great too because you can train in the ring if you need to. I love AKC titles and shorter days, but I miss my laid back super fun NADAC days.

 

[k9kreationz]

I must be mistaken. I thought I had heard that there is a lot of waiting around in AKC. But I have no experience so I could be wrong.

From my experience, there IS a lot of waiting around. Check in at 7:30-8am. First dog on the line around 8:30. Because of the big 16" group, and that I'm usually at the bottom, I don't run until about 9:30ish. Then my standard run walks around 11:30ish, and again, I'm at the bottom, so I don't run till about 1:30ish. Coming from NADAC, it's hard to wait that long and not run more runs. And it's not like I can do much....because my group is so big, I'm having to wait around. Seriously, it's usually about 60 dogs and I'm running at about 45-50ish. Bleah. At one big trial.....I was #68 out of 72. Talk about stressed about missing your run, but bored out of your mind waiting too.

 

[k9kreationz]

NADAC is just too odd for me. So few people, yet so many different kinds of runs and what exactly does a hoopers course show in the way of skill? In the standard runs they don't have a teeter or table and then they put rubber all over the obstacles they do have. I get being safe but it's a bit overboard in my opinion. The only thing I like about NADAC is the ability to run the standard course over again, but in the opposite direction.

I had to laugh at your first sentence. Because I think the exact opposite about AKC. Too many people, too few runs. And what's the point of FAST and T2B? LOL.

Coming from NADAC I will say this much. Um, I think everyone is going rubberized soon, so expect that on all equipment. Most places I run nowdays have rubberized equipment (that includes AKC and USDAA). Not sure if that's on their list of "rules" or what.

Also having started in NADAC, I don't get the big deal about not having a table or teeter. NADAC is for speed, distance, discrimination. I would think tables and teeters (and chutes too) slow dogs down. To me, it's just a different way of wanting to run a dog. I always feel like AKC is "too slow". I probably should've went to USDAA, but I wanted titles on my dogs pedigree.

As for Hoopers. Um, I'm not exactly sure of the skills needed, but I would think discrimination, direction, handling of your dog, speed, and distance. More so for the Elite group. And especially since everything out on the course are Hoops and nothing else. Reminds me of Jumpers with only jumps....I get lost easy. LOL.

Just a small quickie explanation about the NADAC stuff.