mmm, I think it is all about HOW you choose to train your dog in general. Shaping teaches dog to think for himself and figure out his choices, wires and cages are meant to teach dog by not letting him make mistakes. I have seen weaves being taught by targeting to the stick...am sure there are plenty more of ideas... I just seen in our beginners class teaching grids by gating set of 3 jumps so dog can not run around and only has to run forward- same idea- dog can not make mistake.... suppose to work for some.... again something I would not use because before putting 3 jumps together I will build value for 1 jump so why would I need gates? But there are plenty of people and plenty of methods. I really do not know if one method gives you stronger end behavior over others. I do not think it is what dog needs but what is handler knows and understands and how they understand teaching process.
That's not really true. The dog can make mistakes. He can go around the caged weaves, if small enough, a dog can turnaround and come back out. Once the cages are lowered, he can choose to jump the cage, pop out of weaves, etc. But in the end, the dog learns to go through them, independently, and usually fast.
The basics of the cage/wires is fading them out so the dog doesn't even realize they're being changed. I can't seem to find the study done with pigeons and lights. It's not necessarily about NOT giving the dog a choice, it's about teaching the dog to do one thing and fade out the "extra" stuff.
It's valuable training, just a different way of doing things. And you have to be vigilant about the baby steps of fading. If you're not, and you push the dog too fast, that's when you have issues.
Like I said, I think there are many ways for dogs to learn. I don't think one way is better than others.
I'll leave you with this story. I was in a Calculus 3 class. During the semester, I went to my counselor to tell them that I was having a heck of a time learning. She told me to stick it out. I ended up with a D in the class. I had to go to the head of the math dept and my major's dept to appeal the D and take the class over (so I could wipe out the grade). After going back and forth with the two of them, the math teacher finally said, what part of the class was the hardest? I said, "usually when the prof would take a math problem, start working it out on the board with a student(s) who had issues with it, and then got to the point of the error, he'd go back and show you WHERE the error was. By then, I think I just learned how to do the problem incorrectly". The profs way of teaching was to do it wrong, show where you went wrong, and move on. My way of learning is by doing. So i was basically learning how to do things incorrectly for the entire semester. Needless to say, I was totally jacked up by then. Not only did they allow me to retake the class, they assigned a tutor who would teach me in correct steps how to do something.
BTW, most people in the class got A/B's so they thought it was me. Nope, it was his style of teaching. I had never experienced that before and it screwed me up big time.
My point is simply that just like people, dogs learn differently. Allowing a dog to "figure it out for themselves" may not work for every dog. Just like cages and fading may not work. it may also not work for the trainer, however, because we're the ones training, you should always learn about different methods, understand why they work, and keep them in your pocket in case your dog needs it. So, instead of saying "I would never do that, because...." I think you need to learn to say, "Interesting. I'll put that away in my files in case I need it". Because there will be a day when you will need something that isn't what you'd do typically...but will work wonders. Like I said, even the three big name handler/trainers who have dealt with Koji usually end up saying, "oh, he's one of those, okay, let's modify this". Because he doesn't do what most dogs would do (I think he just wants to be special).
Just needs to build up more speed (he's not really a drive-y dog).
) - mine are stick in the ground ones. And the ones at training are 3 poles per base (weird)!
Thanks for the vids!!
