what type of collars should be used

[Janice]

My dogs were adults when I got them so no puppy classes for us . They have been to manners classes (kind of basic obedience) and Callie went to another obedience class so we could learn some rally obedience . We used just regular collars in all the classes. I did get Callie the rolled leather collar since I have read in several places that it is better for long-haired dogs than flat collars- doesn't damage the fur. My previous dog that I did get as a puppy in the early 90's had a training class with choke collars. Positive training wasn't as widespread then as it is now and I would personally look for a class that didn't use any kind of punishment for puppies. You could look on the APDT (Association of Pet Dog Trainers) website (http://www.apdt.com/default.aspx) to see if there are any instructors near you.

Thanks for all your help......Both Canine Mastery and Steppin Up were on the web site that Calliesmom sent and both only 15 to 20 min away from where we live. Thanks so much I will be checking into both of these. They both offer alot. I don't know why these sites didn't come up when I did a google seach for dog training in my area. I'm so glad I asked this question because more than likely we would have sent Shelly to that other training school thinking we were doing the best thing for her. I'm so glad to be apart of this group everyone is so helpful!!

 

[SMillner26]

Don't worry about the prong collar. It's a training device - I used one with my dog when I put her through puppy training.

Of course, it needs to be used right - but as far as training is concerned, it's the closest thing for a puppy's natural way of learning right from wrong. The prongs are supposed to replicate the mama dog's teeth. If the pup is misbehaving, the mother will quickly (and gently!) snap at the nape of the neck. This is all you're doing with a prong collar. The trainer should show you the correct way to use this training method.

By the way, I would never put anything on my collar I wouldn't put on myself - so I tried the collar on and cracked it tight as it would go. It feels more like a bangle bracelet than anything painful.

I used a martingale collar after her prong training was complete (which was only like 2-3 weeks), and I now use a regular buckle collar, since she figured out how to slip the martingales.

 

[GeeRome]

I prefer that my dogs work for me because they trust me, want to have fun with me, and understand that I want what is best for them. They do what I ask them to do by using their brains and trusting my judgment. Everything that I do with them is a game, even down to the most serious of training tasks. Nothing that I do for training is based on pain or discomfort, or the threat of pain or discomfort. If my dog learns to expect pain or discomfort from me then how do I expect them to listen to me in matters of life and death? They can't trust me so why would they come when I call them anxiously away from a busy road, tell them to leave it when we walk past a puddle of antifreeze, etc.? A few emotions are ingrained in most mammals ... fear and trust. I put my faith and the health and safety of my dogs in trust over fear.

As such, all training that I do is on regular flat buckle collars (a rolled leather collar in Romeo's case as his hair mats with a flat one). There are cases, often resulting from neglect or abuse, where a dog is in such a state that the use of a prong collar by a properly trained expert is necessary for introductory training. But in the case of "blank slate" dogs, especially dogs such as Shelties that are so willing to trust their owners, so quick to learn, and so easy to reward, corrective training collars are not necessary.

Anything that people claim need the force of a prong or choke collar can be taught to a higher level and more reliably with nothing more than a clicker and some praise (verbal, physical, toy, treat, etc.).

If a trainer recommends a corrective training collar, I would question their training abilities. I would not necessarily run away, but I would request that they attempt to help me train the task without a training collar first. If they are unable to train without a corrective training collar or insist that I use one, then I would walk out of that class. A good trainer will know when a corrective collar is absolutely necessary. They will not recommend one for a puppy, a nervous or scared dog, or one that is eager and willing to learn. If they do, then find a new trainer. I teach classes with two local dog associations; beginner and intermediate Rally-O withe a local kennel and obedience club, and all levels of flyball up to competition level wit a local flyball organization. Neither club will condone the use of corrective collars in their classes.

The times they are a changing ... and thankfully, the days of the prong and choke collar are on their way out.

 

[graydawntreader]

I prefer that my dogs work for me because they trust me, want to have fun with me, and understand that I want what is best for them. They do what I ask them to do by using their brains and trusting my judgment. Everything that I do with them is a game, even down to the most serious of training tasks. Nothing that I do for training is based on pain or discomfort, or the threat of pain or discomfort. If my dog learns to expect pain or discomfort from me then how do I expect them to listen to me in matters of life and death? They can't trust me so why would they come when I call them anxiously away from a busy road, tell them to leave it when we walk past a puddle of antifreeze, etc.? A few emotions are ingrained in most mammals ... fear and trust. I put my faith and the health and safety of my dogs in trust over fear.

As such, all training that I do is on regular flat buckle collars (a rolled leather collar in Romeo's case as his hair mats with a flat one). There are cases, often resulting from neglect or abuse, where a dog is in such a state that the use of a prong collar by a properly trained expert is necessary for introductory training. But in the case of "blank slate" dogs, especially dogs such as Shelties that are so willing to trust their owners, so quick to learn, and so easy to reward, corrective training collars are not necessary.

Anything that people claim need the force of a prong or choke collar can be taught to a higher level and more reliably with nothing more than a clicker and some praise (verbal, physical, toy, treat, etc.).

If a trainer recommends a corrective training collar, I would question their training abilities. I would not necessarily run away, but I would request that they attempt to help me train the task without a training collar first. If they are unable to train without a corrective training collar or insist that I use one, then I would walk out of that class. A good trainer will know when a corrective collar is absolutely necessary. They will not recommend one for a puppy, a nervous or scared dog, or one that is eager and willing to learn. If they do, then find a new trainer. I teach classes with two local dog associations; beginner and intermediate Rally-O withe a local kennel and obedience club, and all levels of flyball up to competition level wit a local flyball organization. Neither club will condone the use of corrective collars in their classes.

The times they are a changing ... and thankfully, the days of the prong and choke collar are on their way out.

My feelings exactly really.

 

[Hunter's Mom]

I have a collection of collars

(Oh heck, I have a collection of everything dog related LMAO)
As a puppy, Hunter wore a small plain nylon buckle collar. As he grew, he graduated to a martingale, then finally a rolled leather collar. Most of our training has been done on either the martingale or the rolled leather collar but, now that we are moving higher in obedience (Novice) I do employ the use of a micro prong collar to fine tune exercises.
They have a bad rap and I would never use one on a puppy or allow a child handler to use one but, they do have a purpose. They are actually safer than a slip choke collar because of the limited slip ability and the fact that they apply even pressure to the neck. One of my trainer calls them "power steering for dogs" and she was right! Once I started using a german standard collar (the correct term for them) Hunter's heels and turns have gotten tons better. He was having issues with being wide and that has much improved. I have to give almost no corrections and if a correction is needed, I barely have to pull the leash taught to get the reaction I am seeking. Much better than alot of tugging and popping and he doesn't choke himself on his collar anymore.
They are not right for every dog, especially 'soft' dogs, but they can help when used correctly and in the right situation.

 

[Chris]

You really don't need a prong with a Sheltie. They're so sensitive and, for the most part, wanting to please that it's like shooting a fly with a howitzer. However, with our Dunie-Bear, a handful of Chow-Golden puppy with thick neck fur, the prong was perfect. Of course you never yank with a prong -- the blunt tines are much like a finger tap that signals the dog much more quickly than a regular collar. Dunie get s so excited when his training collar and prong set comes out -- "Whahoo! We're going to play school!!"

 

[OntarioSheltie]

There are cases, often resulting from neglect or abuse, where a dog is in such a state that the use of a prong collar by a properly trained expert is necessary for introductory training. But in the case of "blank slate" dogs, especially dogs such as Shelties that are so willing to trust their owners, so quick to learn, and so easy to reward, corrective training collars are not necessary.

My thoughts exactly, I was horrified to think of a prong collar on a little sheltie puppy, that is completely unnecessary. Sadie was only a pup last fall and the thought of putting something so harsh on her when she was so young is very disturbing to me!

 

[sylvia]

I prefer that my dogs work for me because they trust me, want to have fun with me, and understand that I want what is best for them. They do what I ask them to do by using their brains and trusting my judgment. Everything that I do with them is a game, even down to the most serious of training tasks. Nothing that I do for training is based on pain or discomfort, or the threat of pain or discomfort. If my dog learns to expect pain or discomfort from me then how do I expect them to listen to me in matters of life and death? They can't trust me so why would they come when I call them anxiously away from a busy road, tell them to leave it when we walk past a puddle of antifreeze, etc.? A few emotions are ingrained in most mammals ... fear and trust. I put my faith and the health and safety of my dogs in trust over fear.

As such, all training that I do is on regular flat buckle collars (a rolled leather collar in Romeo's case as his hair mats with a flat one). There are cases, often resulting from neglect or abuse, where a dog is in such a state that the use of a prong collar by a properly trained expert is necessary for introductory training. But in the case of "blank slate" dogs, especially dogs such as Shelties that are so willing to trust their owners, so quick to learn, and so easy to reward, corrective training collars are not necessary.

Anything that people claim need the force of a prong or choke collar can be taught to a higher level and more reliably with nothing more than a clicker and some praise (verbal, physical, toy, treat, etc.).

If a trainer recommends a corrective training collar, I would question their training abilities. I would not necessarily run away, but I would request that they attempt to help me train the task without a training collar first. If they are unable to train without a corrective training collar or insist that I use one, then I would walk out of that class. A good trainer will know when a corrective collar is absolutely necessary. They will not recommend one for a puppy, a nervous or scared dog, or one that is eager and willing to learn. If they do, then find a new trainer. I teach classes with two local dog associations; beginner and intermediate Rally-O withe a local kennel and obedience club, and all levels of flyball up to competition level wit a local flyball organization. Neither club will condone the use of corrective collars in their classes.

The times they are a changing ... and thankfully, the days of the prong and choke collar are on their way out.

Hooray, for trainers like you, I am absolutuley in favour of getting results with games and fun and my 4 (was 5) have acheived their CD and CDX without one hint of punishment in any way.

 

[woof]

Hi... We have been looking into a few training schools in my area and the one I really wanted to to start her in informed me I had to purchase a Pinch Prong Training collar for Shelly. (Now flashing lights are going off in my head. Remember my 9 year old son is going to be training her in the classes.) I told them that they looked horrible and looked like they would cause alot of pain. They asured me everyone uses them and they were not painful collars they just looked that way. They told us they were alot better than a choker chain collar. Has anyone else gone to pet obedience or puppy classes and what type of collar did you use? Any help would be nice. Thanks

Hi Janice-good luck with your puppy obedience it is fun and really worthwhile but patience is the key since their attention span is very limited. First I would also make sure your dog's parvo vaccinations are effective (ask your vet) before I took her out in public much parvo is devastating to puppies and even older dogs if they get it. As for collars I use martingales as they are great for dogs like shelties that are easily able to slip out of standard tab collars. Pinch collars simple grab the skin around the neck and do not "pinch" in the the way that they sound- they are good for control since they suppose to mimic moms bite. So used properly they are not going to hurt the dog. And they are way better than choker collars. I also wonder if your 9 yr old is the best choice as a trainer- it may be fine but children sometimes lack the control they need to be effective. I may be wrong on that so just an opinion. That said tho I feel shelties really do not need such extreme measures (as pinch collars) in most cases. All of mine have responded so well to positive measures and they are so attentive to you the trainer (puppies are less so than older shelties) that such control measures are rarely necessary. I think it is important that your instructor be familiar with sheltie personalities cause your training methods will or should differ slightly from those used to control/train a lab etc. If you use the same methods (e.g. more physical) you may end up making them frightened and fearful. IMHO anyway. I have only had experience of taking 3 shelties through obedience so I am far from an expert. At any rate have fun, be patient you will both be better off for it- I always say obedience is 20% for the dog 80% for the trainer. It will help you understand and speak "dog". Good luck.

 

[DoomsDay]

A question on collar use with shelties. Do you keep a collar on your dog all the time even when your not training? If so, what kind do you use? That has been a concern for me since the sheltie has so much hair, I am worried about having a collar on them all time and having it wear down the hair around their neck. Currently the collars I am using is the small nylon kind that are about an inch wide. These aren't training collars, just a standard run of the mill wal-mart type collar.