What would constitute "backyard" breeder for sheltie?

I think there are some really great responses so far!

The only other thing I'd like to add is genetic testing. A reputable breeder will test their breeding dogs for hereditary defects / diseases like hip dysplasia, eye diseases (cerf), hypothyrodism, vonWillebrand’s disease, etc. They will be able to show you proof for these tests when you visit.

Again, everyone may have a different definition of a BYB, but one who is just breeding their dogs because they think they're cute or to make a little extra money, probably hasn't done any genetic testing on their breeding dogs.
 
Lightplum said:
TI also like to see CH's in that pedigree multiple and not just one or two in the 4 generation pedigree. Personally I'd like to see the sire a CH, there is really no reason if they are on the up and up to not have one parent be a CH, and I say sire since the window of showing opportunity for the dam to be in coat and shown is usually rather short, but can be done, but it usually takes longer and they take time out for motherhood, where the sires can keep on going:biggrin2:
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Good point - I have traced back the lineage on all my Shelties. Lots of Ch, both American and Canadian, and even a Japanese one in Goldenhylites' The Phantom in Emma and Liam.

I agree with the genetic testing too. BYB are not likely to spend this kind of money to do this testing.

The breeder I got Emma from gave me Liam just because she wanted him in a good home and no one wanted him, I don't know why. He is the most loving and cuddliest of all the Shelties I have owned. Breeders who care about their dogs are picky about who they go to.

What I would do - learn the ideal standards of a Sheltie. Find some that you like and get all the information you can on their lines - all of us here share freely about this. Then start looking for a good breeder. Vets are a good place to start. Ask at your local humane society/shelter. If you see a Sheltie in the park or on the street, talk to the owner.
 
tofu pup said:
I'm also going to come out and say that I'm always a wee bit suspicious when a breeder has both the sire and the dam on the premises. When you have a bitch to breed, you have so, so many options in terms of a stud dog - especially in this day and age of chilled semen!
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I had the opposite problem. I didn't start with bitches, I started with a male. So finding girls to breed him to was the challenge. So both of my first two litters, I had both parents here. I leased the first girl, and own the second one. This third litter, my bitch is down in North Carolina partying and hopefully getting knocked up. Her new boyfriend has titles at both ends, I am very excited.

I am more "goal oriented" in my opinions of breeders as well. We have some breeders who work within a "family", which I think is cool. It's predictable, they know what they are going to get, and they know everything behind the dogs. Then we have people who take whatever bitch is in the house and breed it to "big man stud dog", whoever happens to be winning or popular that week. So when you look at what is in their house, none of it is related, it may or may not even look the same, and they don't really know about the "family".

I look for puppies that when I sit in the middle of the pen, they walk up onto me and proclaim "HI! Let's Play!!" If the litter as a whole isn't all over me, I don't want any part of it. I want to see toys, and ramps, and surfaces. I want to see adult dogs that you have to put away because they are so annoying trying to play with you.
 
Everyone Has given you great advice, For me I have used a few different small breeders from both farms for my BC's and rural houses for the shelties. In most instances they were well known in the show arena and in the area dog community. The dogs were genitically cleared and documentation & Registration papers of the parents were provided for inspection on request. the last 2 breeders were in small rural houses with around 8 to 10 dogs
in each house, the conditions of the houses varried dramatically, One was a disaster zone but clean the other was impecably immaculate, Hey some people don't keep house well, but the overriding factor in both cases was that the dogs were extremely well kept and maintained all were clean brushed groomed and there living areas were clean & tidy. In both cases it was not a case of give me some money and I will give you a puppy. It was come look at the puppies play with them let me asses you as a potential owner and maybe I will let you take care of one of my puppies. Both genuenly care about where thier dog are going, how the are doing and expect regular update & photos and we have met at shows & agility trials in the areaover the last while and they allways come to see the dogs and have a peek to see how they are doing. One has actually retaken posession of a dog that she didn't feel was being cared for properly at a local agility trial, the dog was being run obviously very injured. She discretly went over, wrote the lady a cheque for the dog and took him back on the spot, he was 3 at the time and she has kept him now for 8 years, it took almost 2 years before the dog was well enough to run agility again. He is actually the grandfather of my Cosmo.
I like to go with my gut feeling.
So for me if I get the impression that they are doing it for the money then I avoid the breeder and just walk away, If I come away from the initial meeting with a feeling that the breeder has shown a genuine interest in the pup and thier dogs in general, and me as an potential owner and it's not all about the money then I consider the purchase as well and usually put down a deposit to hold the pup. I have never gone out met a breeder and purchased a pup the same day period, unless I have had a prior purchase from them, and it has worked for me as I have been very happy with all the dogs I have purchased over the last 30 years.
 
I have never gone out met a breeder and purchased a pup the same day period, unless I have had a prior purchase from them, and it has worked for me as I have been very happy with all the dogs I have purchased over the last 30 years.
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This is exactly how I felt. Not knowing much about "properly" purchasing a "good" puppy, I told my girls "we WILL NOT be bringing home a puppy today. We'll go and learn first." while we are driving 120 miles to the breeder's house.

I read some very good replies here. I learned a lot.

There is a "meet & greet" event this weekend, hosted by a local sheltie rescue. We'll go there and check them out. More I learn, more there is to learn!!





"It's just a dog!! Why does it have to be so complicated??? I just want a puppy!" says my wife.

What's a good one-sentence reply to this?
 
What's "Hobby Breeder"

I have someone who replied to my sheltie puppy inquiry.

She says "I'm a hobby breeder"

Now what's this? is this a red flag? If I knew people are trying to stay away from "sub-standard breeder like BYB", then "I'm a hobby breeder" wouldn't be the first word out of my mouth.

To the established quality breeders;

How did you start? You must have had a humble beginning, may be with just a pair of Dam and Sire, giving away pups to friends and families. Then you grew and became good at whatever you do. At what point did you start to include the puppy profits into your income tax form? Did you consider yourself a "hobby breeder" in the beginning?

Everything is on the table... I'm climbing this steep learning curve :winkgrin:
 
It seems that I just went through this not that long ago. I also did a lot of research prior to picking out the breeder we finally got Sadie from.
Our first sheltie came from a new breeder and it was her first set of puppies; big mistake as our Kelly had nothing but health problems his whole life (14 yrs.). The vet bills were $500-$1200 per year, so it can get costly.
So we wanted to be a little more educated when we started looking for another puppy. We found the ASSA online, and found a breeder from their site. Here are some of the tips they had:

Guidelines to Purchasing a Shetland sheepdog

Compiled by the ASSA Regional Advisers

You can identify a reputable breeder by asking the following questions:
• Do you offer a general health and temperament guarantee upon delivery of dog? Including: Vaccination and worming records? May we contact your veterinarian as a personal reference?
• Do you provide a 3-generation pedigree and AKC registration application?
• Do you certify to your knowledge, your dog is to be free of any hereditary defects affecting its suitability as a pet/companion dog?
• May we see the dam and possibly the sire to check for good temperament?
• Do you require spay/neuter terms and limited AKC registration for dogs offered as pets/companions?
• What is your return policy should the dog develop a serious health problem or any hereditary defect affecting its suitability for the purpose purchased?
• Would you be willing to offer guidance in the raising, training, and development of this dog?
• Do you offer a written contract which includes the above stated certifications and necessary requested data?
• What are your breed affiliations, i.e., club memberships and accomplishments, i.e., breed/performance championships, awards, etc.? How long have you been breeding Shetland Sheepdogs? How many litters do you usually have each year?

http://www.assa.org/
 
jasonsjwou said:
"It's just a dog!! Why does it have to be so complicated??? I just want a puppy!" says my wife.

What's a good one-sentence reply to this?
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"Just a puppy" will (hopefully) be a member of your family for 15+ years - that's a long time! And since there's so much information to gather, and so many options to explore, why not take your time and make the most educated chocie that you can?

Or you could just say, "It's not just a dog, it's a Sheltie." But no guarantees that that'll work! :wink2:
 
For me... of the ones you looked into... I would say the middle one probably might be closer to the not BYB. I have to crate my dogs during the afternoon summers here in SC. It gets so HOT and DRY. Not only would the heat be miserable for them physically it also wrecks havoc on the coats. And, yes they do generally bark at strangers for about the first five minutes that they come into there crated area. They simmer down after awhile when they realize there's no cookies. :smile2: Check out the breeders crates? Do they look clean and have comfy beds? I would also ask to see there play yard. To see if they have adequate room to run and play and just be a dog... for the amount of dogs that they have. I would be concerned if they don't have anything very large... as a dog that is crated for hours on end without any exercise is not a happy dog. Physically, mentally, and emotionally.
Ask how many litters that they have a year? Base their answers on how many females that they have. I do have red flags when I hear that one bitch is having puppies every cycle.
Ask about health genetic testings. If the sire and dam haven't had theirs done yet(under 2 years old)... are the grand-sire and grand-dam on both sides clear? If not I would back away.
I too would be interested when buying a puppy on what decisions went into the pedigrees to decide to breed those two together. For instance I haven't had a litter for over a year and half. A good deal of one year I have spent searching the internet for hours to find the perfect boy for one of my girls. I've finally found one... but still it'll be a couple of months before she even goes into her heat cycle. What I'm trying to get across here... is that finding a match can take months of work. And when someone who happens to have an unaltered male and female...just decides lets put these two together and have some cute puppies. Something is wrong. To me it hurts when I see things like that happen... as someone is possibly destroying a line that has taken not months, but years of hard work and even emotional stress for a good breeder to build up that pedigree to what it was.
Ok, can you say that's a touchy subject for me??? :winkgrin::razz:
 
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