What would constitute "backyard" breeder for sheltie?

[OntarioSheltie]

I think the term "back yard breeder" is an unfortunate misnomer. I'd much rather see a home-based hobby breeder with one or two or three good stock that are selectively bred with an eye toward the line and improving the breed for structure, temperament, and the Sheltie standard.

This sounds so much like the breeder I got Sadie and Ginny from. She's a wonderful, caring person who is a small hobby breeder but does everything right.

She has a background in showing and breeding, her shelties are CKC (Canadian Kennel Club) registered and from proven, quality lines. She only breeds to proven, quality CKC registered dogs with temperaments that she feels are ideal.

All of her dogs are genetically tested and she carefully screens perspective puppy owners and has an excellent puppy contract and will happily take any of her pups back for whatever reason. S

he doesn't actively show but she breeds quality shelties that go primarily to pet homes and she strives to uphold the breed standard. She breeds because she LOVES shelties, not for the money. I seriously doubt she makes any money from breeding, when all is said and done.

Even though she doesn't actively show, I have no doubt in my mind that she's a wonderful breeder.

 

[seashel]

In my mind, and reading all the replies posted here, it really all boils down to one thing - what motivation does the 'breeder' have for producing the litter? Those who are breeding for show will be focussing on producing dogs which fit the standard as closely as possible and are probably hoping to have something good enough from the litter to keep themselves for the future. Breeders producing dogs for performance may be less concerned about producing dogs which match the standard (but they should still be aiming to adhere pretty closely to breed type) but will be focussing on producing top notch competition dogs. Again, they will be hoping to keep one for themselves. Some breeders don't show or compete in performance events but aim to produce nice pets. This is where you do have to be more careful though. If their motivation is to produce a pup to keep, then chances are they are going to invest time, effort and knowledge into producing well bred puppies. However, if this is the case they are unlikely to breed often as they will only have one or two pet bitches. The difficulty here seems to be that people frequently start with the best intentions, breeding a litter from a much loved pet, maybe to give her a companion. If things go well (and weirdly they usually do for first timers!) they suddenly realise that perhaps this might be a way of making a little bit extra. They breed another litter, but this time, with the idea of making a profit, they use a poorer quality/cheaper dog, perhaps cut corners when rearing the litter. Before too long they are breeding a couple or more litters a year, purely to sell and make money from. These are not large scale puppy millers with really poor conditions, but they still are not a good bet because all the investment that 'competition' breeders put into raising a quality litter will have been skimped on. I'm sure there are very good breeders who do breed annually from one or two pet dogs for the pet market and who do everything right, but it might not be that easy to spot which ones they are.

If a breeder genuinely puts the welfare of their dogs/puppies before anything else, they will not be keen to sell a puppy! They will not let their precious babies go to anyone without finding out quite a lot about every potential purchaser's lifestyle. Be wary of any breeder who dosn't want to know about where you live, your lifestyle, family etc. Don't volunteer all the information up front without being asked, let the breeder ask you some questions too. If they act like a salesperson in a store, then red flags should be waving as all they are interested in is making a sale, not ensuring that you and the puppy are good matches for each other.

Best of luck, it is more than worth all the effort to end up with a healthy, well adjusted pup that you can enjoy for hopefully the next 15 years or more.

 

[dawns2shelties]

"It's just a dog!! Why does it have to be so complicated??? I just want a puppy!" says my wife.

What's a good one-sentence reply to this?

I would tell her ...

1. It is not just a dog it will be a member of our family who we will be responsible for life.

2. You want to give your family the best option at having a healthy pup.

3. an unhealthy pup can and in my case has incurred 1000's of dollars in vet bills and you would hate to see her go without that new handbag,dress or necklace she has been eyeing up.

There are many more reasons but if she is like most woman #3 should queit her down

 

[KarenCurtis]

Naturally, I'm biased... but I think it's best to support breeders who are breeding to the Standard and to a goal (be that conformation or performance). (n.b. that "breeding to the Standard" means much more than just breeding dogs who happen to both be AKC-registered.) Pet-quality puppies will, by definition, not have "made the grade" for show or breeding, but they should look and act like Shelties. Bottom line: a goal-oriented breeding program (not breeding just to make more dogs) is what I look for.

Well said. Sandstorm is a pet quality puppy from a really great breeder- CH pedigree extensive history. And yes, he looks like a sheltie! Too big to be shown, but we wanted a pet quality, bred to standard, and that is what we got. SS is a beautiful dog, typical sheltie!!

 

[jasonsjwou]

sheltie rescue

Most of breeders that I have contacted, wants me to sign a purchase contract. Some appear overly restrictive, and some even says the breeder reserves right to take the dog away from me and fine me for thousands of dollars. While I totally understand the purpose of such contract and the extraneous circumstances this may happen, but I cannot and WILL NOT sign such a document.

All of the documents I've seen, includes a clause saying, "If I have to surrender the dog in the future, I should return the dog to the breeder, and never to an impound/rescue"

Then how and why do I see so many shelties in the rescue?

Is it because the purchase just doesn't care? or moved out of state where it is not possible to return to the breeder? or the dog has so much mental/health problem that the owner nor the breeder were willing to take it?

I'm still learning. I feel that it's much better to pester the forum instead of doing something that I cannot follow through.

 

[Lightplum]

All of the documents I've seen, includes a clause saying, "If I have to surrender the dog in the future, I should return the dog to the breeder, and never to an impound/rescue"

Then how and why do I see so many shelties in the rescue?

Is it because the purchase just doesn't care? or moved out of state where it is not possible to return to the breeder? or the dog has so much mental/health problem that the owner nor the breeder were willing to take it?

I'm still learning. I feel that it's much better to pester the forum instead of doing something that I cannot follow through.

The majority of shelties in rescue are from petstores/puppymillers/byb who do not have contacts stating the dog must be returned to the breeder. They honestly in the end do not care where their dogs end up as long as they have cash in hand... now thats not saying that people dont move away things happen and the dog though no fault of the breeder end up in a rescue, ie breeder is old/in nursing home/dies..etc...but generally if another breeder in the area finds out an older breeders dog in a bad spot they will take them and re-home them.

 

[Lahree]

I found my Sheltie by looking on the internet for the local AKC registered Sheltie club. I then wrote to the secretary of the club and basically gave her a resume. I told her that I had had two Shelties in my life spanning 30 years and that my husband and I were ready for another one. I explained our family life, work schedule, that we had a fenced yard, that I could provide vet references, how much time we could devote to the dog, etc. I then told the secretary what kind of a Sheltie I was looking for: age, temperment, etc. She then distributed my "resume" to all the people in the club and then people in the club contacted me if they had an animal they felt were suitable and of course, if they found US suitable.

I felt comfortable doing it this way because all the people in this club bred Shelties for show, so they wanted to improve the breed. Everyone who I ended up in contact with did genetic testing, had papers, and were very concerned about who their animals were going to. Something I consider VERY important. I WANT them to check me out. I WANT them to care about those precious animals. I also had no problem with the people I talked to for checking THEM out. They all welcomed it. Another thing that is vital. They should have nothing to hide. I asked people for references and I followed through.

I really suggest you give this method a try. Please look for a local AKC Sheltie breed club. Don't just look for Shelties for sale on the internet. OMG, there are some poor overbred horrible looking puppies from puppy mills listed on the net for like $1400. Poor sad looking babies. It breaks my heart.

I ended up with a pet-quality pup. She was the the only pet quality baby out of her litter. The rest were show quality so I got her for a pet quality price. She doesn't know she doesn't fit the stndard like her brohers and sisters. She is still a Sheltie through and through and much smarter than me.

I am so happy you are going all your research and are being careful. Please remember that a rescue can be a good option as well. If you go that route, please make sure that you choose one that fits your lifestyle. Neither of you wants to go through emotional trauma of a wrong fit.

 

[tofu pup]

Is it because the purchase just doesn't care?

Usually. You hear horror stories about owners who were supposed to return the dog to the breeder when they got tired of it... but didn't have the guts to tell the breeder that they didn't want the dog anymore. So they tear up the papers and dump the dog in rescue or the pound.

And, of course, Shelties come from all kinds of breeders... which means that Shelties in rescue come from all kinds of breeders.

Look, as responsible breeders, we feel responsible for that dog for the rest of his or her life. We want to feel certain that this living, breathing animal that we brought into the world will have a secure home until its last day. If that means taking a dog back from a buyer - so be it. Best-case scenario is that we're able to find the dog a new home, but if s/he needs to stay with us forever, so be that, too.

Keep in mind - purchase contracts are standard with responsible breeders. If you aren't comfortable with the contract, then look elsewhere - but understand that return-clauses are there to protect the dog.

 

[Emmasmom]

Tofupup has said it well. When I was offered Liam, the breeder let me know I could have him for a few weeks and if it didn't work out, then I could return him to her. This is for a pup that cost me nothing other than the cost of the neuter because she wanted him in a good home. Emma was a singleton pup who is show quality, from a long lineage of champions. If it wasn't for her underbite, I would never have gotten her and would have missed out on so much.

Sure, I have to offer both she and Liam back to the breeder first if circumstances are such that I can no longer keep them (and this would truly break my heart). I understand that you may not want to sign such a contract, but these types of contracts are there first and foremost for the pup, at present and in the future, to ensure that they are given the best care. They are not there so that the breeder can just decide to step in and take the pup back, unless it is totally warranted by lack of care of the dog (and unfortunately, this does happen).

You would not refuse to sign a contract to purchase a house, a car, a major appliance, to have work done on your house. Why would signing a contract be any different for a puppy that becomes such an important part of your life?

BYB, who are in it for money, really don't care what happens to the pup and really don't care which dogs are bred to which - health issues don't really matter because they will not be the ones having to foot the cost for them. For me - I would rather find a good breeder, who cares enough about her animals to take them back, to do genetic testing, to bred to uphold the standard of the Sheltie breed, who is a support system to me (and I needed it with a heart issue of Emma's). This I would not have found from just anyone.

If you are objecting to signing a contract that provides protection for the puppy you seem to want, then maybe you need to reconsider if you really want a dog.

 

[3Stars]

I agree with Ronna. A huge warning sign to me would be a breeder who DIDN'T have a contract like that. The breeder of my sheltie, Starr, takes her responsibility as a breeder extremely seriously. She is available for help and guidance ANYTIME I need her. In return, she asks me to take my responsibility as his owner seriously - and part of that is signing a contract with her. That contract ensures that I clearly understand the breeder's expectations when she gives me a puppy that she has lovingly nurtured through the first eight weeks of his life. If you aren't comfortable with a contract, and you don't want a back yard breeder (which is very responsible of you, by the way), I would strongly suggest rescuing a sheltie.