Hurtseverywhere
Forums Enthusiast
I Have seen it on occasion especially when the dogs have just gone off crazy and outa control, I haven't every done it yet myself, not sure I would even, but you never know.
What's with Carrying Dogs Off Courses???
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SheltieChe
Forums Sage
Famous Lisa and Hoss, watch what happens 2.30-3.00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sMhdPIB_hMM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sMhdPIB_hMM
To me carrying dog off course is unacceptable. I can however imagine couple of situations when I would do that, too.
Most of the time, though, people are just frustrated and disappointed that dog didn't do what they wanted and they always blame the dog instead of realizing that perhaps their handling wasn't the best. I've never carried my dog away, but I've had moments when I was disappointed and bitter, blaming the dog.... Funny thing is that later on I either thought about the situation and realized I did something wrong or watched the video that cleared everything up and of course, it was ME who was to blame. I think dog doesn't deserve that kind of treatment. They're doing their best and we can either blame bad handling or bad training. Dog is doing his best under given circumstances. Luckily it doesn't happen over here often. People usually try and finish their runs. Only one lady on Saturday interrupted her run, put the dog into heel position and left the ring. It was her fault they made an error, but well..... at least she didn't beat him. On the other side, there are many things that bother me when watching other people. Another thing that I really hate is when handler and dog finish their run and handlers don't even bother to pat the dog or anything. They ignore him completely and there's no reward for the dog.
I've read this yday on Facebook and it's something we all should remember when running
"It is one thing to desire to win to prove you are better than others and prove to yourself that you are worth something. It is another thing entirely to rid yourself of ego and to love the process and moment so much that winning is a by-product of passion.
When I see the smile on a dog's face as he runs agility, I know he's already there running with passion, unconcerned about outcome. We are the ones that need to learn the lesson."
It's really sad when you see how sometimes people really only care about winning and they are awful to their dogs if it doesn't work out....
As for Lisa&Hoss video..... It isn't what it looks like. Everyone saw her video from last year's WC where Hoss knocked down a bar and she was so professional and positive, finishing her run, having a blast with her dog. She also always rewards the dog - it's the first thing she does when she finishes her runs. I actually know the whole story behind this video, because it was in Kladno, CR and people discussed it in czech agility forum page. People who know Lisa and were there with her said that Hoss made a mistake for the first time, so she wanted him to "do it right" and took him back on DW, but then he was all confused and didn't react on his release cue, so Lisa took him away. Some of her closer friends said that Hoss is "momma's boy" and he hates making mistakes, so that's what basically happened and why she took him away.
Most of the time, though, people are just frustrated and disappointed that dog didn't do what they wanted and they always blame the dog instead of realizing that perhaps their handling wasn't the best. I've never carried my dog away, but I've had moments when I was disappointed and bitter, blaming the dog.... Funny thing is that later on I either thought about the situation and realized I did something wrong or watched the video that cleared everything up and of course, it was ME who was to blame. I think dog doesn't deserve that kind of treatment. They're doing their best and we can either blame bad handling or bad training. Dog is doing his best under given circumstances. Luckily it doesn't happen over here often. People usually try and finish their runs. Only one lady on Saturday interrupted her run, put the dog into heel position and left the ring. It was her fault they made an error, but well..... at least she didn't beat him. On the other side, there are many things that bother me when watching other people. Another thing that I really hate is when handler and dog finish their run and handlers don't even bother to pat the dog or anything. They ignore him completely and there's no reward for the dog.
I've read this yday on Facebook and it's something we all should remember when running
"It is one thing to desire to win to prove you are better than others and prove to yourself that you are worth something. It is another thing entirely to rid yourself of ego and to love the process and moment so much that winning is a by-product of passion.
When I see the smile on a dog's face as he runs agility, I know he's already there running with passion, unconcerned about outcome. We are the ones that need to learn the lesson."
It's really sad when you see how sometimes people really only care about winning and they are awful to their dogs if it doesn't work out....
As for Lisa&Hoss video..... It isn't what it looks like. Everyone saw her video from last year's WC where Hoss knocked down a bar and she was so professional and positive, finishing her run, having a blast with her dog. She also always rewards the dog - it's the first thing she does when she finishes her runs. I actually know the whole story behind this video, because it was in Kladno, CR and people discussed it in czech agility forum page. People who know Lisa and were there with her said that Hoss made a mistake for the first time, so she wanted him to "do it right" and took him back on DW, but then he was all confused and didn't react on his release cue, so Lisa took him away. Some of her closer friends said that Hoss is "momma's boy" and he hates making mistakes, so that's what basically happened and why she took him away.
ClantyreSheltie
Forums Sage
I've done it.
My dog might get walked-off for two reasons, with two very different kinds of walk-offs. The first is when he is blatantly ignoring me. It happens. I'm not talking about one mistake where it could have been my fault, but where he just blows me off and runs across the course to stand on the a-frame and admire his audience. I pick him up off the a-frame, and out we go. It's almost always the a-frame. He will actually go around me or through my legs to get to the a-frame. It's a known issue. In class, if I'm close enough, I grab his tail and drag him down the a-frame, then make him do the right thing. He is not a soft dog, I'm not going to ruin him.
The second situation is when he and I are just failing to communicate. He is trying to do what I want, but we just aren't meshing. In this case, I run him off the course, onto his chair, and feed him cookies just like we had finished the course. He doesn't know the difference. I know myself well enough to know that continuing the course will just irritate me and he'll pick up on that, so it's better for me to stop.
We are getting more consistent as we go on, he only got walked off twice this year.
My dog might get walked-off for two reasons, with two very different kinds of walk-offs. The first is when he is blatantly ignoring me. It happens. I'm not talking about one mistake where it could have been my fault, but where he just blows me off and runs across the course to stand on the a-frame and admire his audience. I pick him up off the a-frame, and out we go. It's almost always the a-frame. He will actually go around me or through my legs to get to the a-frame. It's a known issue. In class, if I'm close enough, I grab his tail and drag him down the a-frame, then make him do the right thing. He is not a soft dog, I'm not going to ruin him.
The second situation is when he and I are just failing to communicate. He is trying to do what I want, but we just aren't meshing. In this case, I run him off the course, onto his chair, and feed him cookies just like we had finished the course. He doesn't know the difference. I know myself well enough to know that continuing the course will just irritate me and he'll pick up on that, so it's better for me to stop.
We are getting more consistent as we go on, he only got walked off twice this year.
Back about 15 years ago, when I was just starting to show in obedience, I was told to NEVER pick up your dog, even as you exit the ring, and certainly never when ribbons were being handed out. Also, if you made a clearly NQ move, it was bad sportsmanship not to finish the exercises. Is it different in agility, or has it just gone out of fashion?
ClantyreSheltie
Forums Sage
The rules are different. You may not self-excuse in obedience. So even if it's going badly, you have to finish. We still don't pick up dogs in obedience. Yes, agility is way different.
I have only in a couple of incidents my dogs out of the ring.....Willow is the one I had to as when she first started, she would bark at the judge and just lost all focus and we didn't get anywhere! She now runs beautifully. I have been very careful as when running the chihuahuas, they shut down easily and have their "feel-bads" hurt too easily!
I enjoy agility as I have always seen it as a happy sport and you and your dog are out playing a game together. I know I enjoy the sport and my dogs do too, so if we make a mistake, oh well, our main goal is to have a blast (safely). I remember one judge in his briefing stating "best friends on the start line and best friends on the finish line".
I enjoy agility as I have always seen it as a happy sport and you and your dog are out playing a game together. I know I enjoy the sport and my dogs do too, so if we make a mistake, oh well, our main goal is to have a blast (safely). I remember one judge in his briefing stating "best friends on the start line and best friends on the finish line".
romeosangiovese
Forums Enthusiast
When I first started I've carried my dogs out when they ran willy nilly and just weren't paying attention (or when Romeo marked in the ring 
). But I don't remember being angry, just incredibly embarrassed. 
Of course, neither happens anymore, thankfully!
If we run wrong now, I just swear a little in the ring (hopefully not loud enough to be heard by anyone!), but I know it's because of me, and I always finish and reward the dogs and use my happy voice. I constantly remind myself it's not their fault - it's just a flaw or hole in my training that we need to work on.
What's the point of being mad anyway? The last thing I'd want is for my dogs to HATE going in there coz mom always gets mad. I can just see them getting stressed, shutting down and just not wanting to work!
). But I don't remember being angry, just incredibly embarrassed. Of course, neither happens anymore, thankfully! If we run wrong now, I just swear a little in the ring (hopefully not loud enough to be heard by anyone!), but I know it's because of me, and I always finish and reward the dogs and use my happy voice. I constantly remind myself it's not their fault - it's just a flaw or hole in my training that we need to work on.
What's the point of being mad anyway? The last thing I'd want is for my dogs to HATE going in there coz mom always gets mad. I can just see them getting stressed, shutting down and just not wanting to work!
I have carried Trax off before. I carry him off for two things. One is if he breaks his stay. The other is if he doesn't touch his contacts. For Trax, the reward of agility is agility itself. It's not the treats afterwards or the petting or cheering. He LOVES agility. In practice he hits his contacts every time. In practice he holds his stays every time. He's not a stupid dog. He knows that in the ring, something is different. He knows that in the ring, if he bounces off a contact I'm not putting him back on the yellow like I would in practice. He knew that if he broke his stay, he would get to go run and play. So by pulling him off the field, he learned real quick that if he didn't do the same things as he would in practice that he just wouldn't get to play.
Now, there's a way to do it and a way NOT to do it. When you feel there's no other recourse but to pull a dog off a course, you can't yell and be nasty and pull them. I quietly pick him up, carry him to his crate and walk away. I get upset AFTER I've walked away from him. Then after a few minutes I'll take him outside to walk and act like nothing happened.
I feel that especially with Shelties, you can make them shut down very easily so being mean and nasty never turns out well for you or the dog. As for those that pull their dog off and blame their dog for their mistakes, that is totally wrong in my opinion.
Now, there's a way to do it and a way NOT to do it. When you feel there's no other recourse but to pull a dog off a course, you can't yell and be nasty and pull them. I quietly pick him up, carry him to his crate and walk away. I get upset AFTER I've walked away from him. Then after a few minutes I'll take him outside to walk and act like nothing happened.
I feel that especially with Shelties, you can make them shut down very easily so being mean and nasty never turns out well for you or the dog. As for those that pull their dog off and blame their dog for their mistakes, that is totally wrong in my opinion.
Not saying she's right, but look at it this way. I pull Trax if he breaks his stay. If he breaks his stay we NQ 99% of the time. So I can waste $25 on one or two runs and get him to learn, or we can waste $250 for the last 10 runs that he broke his stay. Same with contacts. If your dog bails off of a contact, you've already NQ'd. You can teach them that it's unacceptable by pulling them off the course , or you can reward them for their wrong behavior by letting them run the rest of the course. I'd rather teach them the first time rather than reinforcing the bad behavior and spending years trying to fix it.
Take a wild guess why Trax is almost 7 years old and just recently got his MX and MXJ. I let him get away with it for TWO YEARS and literally went over 9 months without a Q. I started pulling him off the course and it took two or three times pulling him off the course before Trax stopped bailing and self releasing. So what's $75 versus around $720 I wasted?