Why I don't do conformation shows...

Tully was the best turned out of her litter (although she looked like the ugliest pup to me) but the breeder gave her to me rather than a show home or keeping her because she thought Tully's would be happier in a performance home. And she was right. Most show breeders I know make decisions on what's best for the dog before what is best for them. They did hope to get a litter from her though (but I decided to desex her).
 
Last edited:
Don't say that about your own dog! :eek2: I think Tully is very cute! I can't believe you typed that. :lol:

Case of the ugly duckling turning into a swan. I really didnt believe the breeder when she told me Tully had good structure because as far as I was concerned she had the structure for a wombat (dont get me wrong I love wombats - they are cute in an ugly blobby way, Tully was as stubborn as a wombat too)! Lucky I'm not a breeder - I am not a good judge of structure, how do you tell if a little blobby pup is going to have 'the right stuff'.
 
Breeding and showing dogs is a business and sentiments don't do well in business world.

Then why are the majority of the breeders I know not making a dime off their breeding programs?

Any money that comes in from placing a dog goes right back into the care for the dogs they still have under their roof. Medical bills, food, etc. for a large number of dogs IS NOT cheap.

Usually to get a good show dog you need to apprentice for some time under good breeder and as tofupup mentioned get an "eye" for the show prospect and then maybe invest $$$ into buying your own dog for show. It is not unheard of spending 10 K before you have your first Champion title.

The majority of which they never recoup.


Breeders usually breed their dogs to improve their lines and get their next champion

Which also serves to improve the quality, both structure and health, of the dogs placed as pets and/or performance dogs. I want a breeder who is focused on breeding to improve the quality of their dogs and not just doing random breeding.

There is also only so much time one has to spend on a dog so if person has too many dogs some will be left behind. It is just a business and I am glad to be just a pet owner.

This is true and its why breeders look to place the dogs they don't plan to show or breed with loving homes. The breeders are well aware of their limits and how many dogs they can have in their household and STILL give the dogs the time of day to have well socialized animals.

Over the years I've watched my breeder place adult dogs, including my CJ, with loving forever homes so they'd have a better life than she's able to provide for them.

Its not that she no longer cares for her dogs - that is SO NOT THE CASE. She still fawns over Edan and he's been with me since he was 7 months old (he'll be 4 years old in 1.5 weeks). Even after she places her dogs, they are still her kids! She'll dog sit for people who own her dogs. And she wants her dogs back if the new owners can't care for them any longer. Heck, my breeder has driven 2 hours to watch Edan and I compete in non-AKC Agility venues.

Does that sound like someone who doesn't give a damn about their dogs???

My CJ was placed with us, even though she is still a dog my breeder is considering for breeding, because we can provide her with more than just love, food, a backyard to run around in. She knew she could count on us to give her a purpose - training as an agility dog. Its not that she doesn't want to do performance; its that she doesn't have time between her actual job and spending time with her dogs to do performance.

Look, I can't speak for everyone who shows dogs. But I really take issue with the broad, sweeping statements that you're making - you are making assumptions about how my mom and I relate to our dogs, and I think that's entirely unfair. It is not "just a business" for us.

I agree entirely Tofu Pup. I'm not a breeder but EVERY BREEDER I KNOW, and I know plenty between my breeder, my groomer, my groomer's assistant (who also breeds Shelties), and numerous members of my agility club.

NONE of them are in it to make money. They are breeding dogs because they love their dogs and the breed and want to contribute to improving the breed for future generations.


SheltieChe, I get it, you don't like breeders and the idea of dog shows; or at least that's the impression you give here. HOWEVER, your broad assumptions are incredibly off base from the norm - almost stereotypical in nature.

I'm not going to say there are not breeders who act as you seem to assume all breeders do, that would be foolish. What I'm AM saying is your assumptions, your stereotype, does NOT fit the norm. Its equivalent to saying "all blondes are dumb" when I'm SURE you can name a number of intelligent people who happen to be blonde.
 
OK, I'm feeling guilty now because this thread has caused such contention.

What I really meant is that for me, personally, I don't have the patience for showing. I also like to have something I can work on (ie, improve contacts, or the way a dog weaves). But I can't change my dogs coat or his looks and I don't have the patience to parade around a ring and then wait there not to be picked.

BUT, that is my failing:wink2:and for those of you who love showing I understand the appeal, but it just isn't for me, which is why I shall stick with my doggy sports.

Plus, I had the blues the day I started this thread for a very un-dog related reason and the lack of a place in the dog show was the straw that broke the camel's back - so to speak.

Please guys, don't fight, I love that you love showing. I love watching Crufts and appreciating a good coat on a dog, while at the same time enjoying the fact that I am not in that ring.

So please don't argue over a silly thread I began.:o

And to end this on a lighter note, I giggled over the idea of making a black list of judges and I just have to do the Dad's Army quote.

(In a heavy German accent)
"Your name will also go on ze list..."

OK, probably nobody knows what I am rabbiting on about:lol: Well, that's normal for me:wink2:
 
(In a heavy German accent)
"Your name will also go on ze list..."

OK, I think I'm going to co-opt this! Yes, there is definitely A List. Sometimes, if there's a relatively unknown judge coming up, people will start calling around to see if anyone has any notes on him.

Mine includes judges who obviously don't like Shelties, a judge who snuck up behind my dog and grabbed his tail to "measure" it, and a judge who actually made me cry in the ring. :lol: Oh, the war-stories!
 
Then why are the majority of the breeders I know not making a dime off their breeding programs?

Well, I made over 2000 on one litter
silaria said:
Any money that comes in from placing a dog goes right back into the care for the dogs they still have under their roof. Medical bills, food, etc. for a large number of dogs IS NOT cheap.
Oh yeah, that money had been spent years ago...

silaria said:
The majority of which they never recoup.

[/quote]I'm years behind making anything on my dogs...probably more years than I've been alive.



silaria said:
Which also serves to improve the quality, both structure and health, of the dogs placed as pets and/or performance dogs. I want a breeder who is focused on breeding to improve the quality of their dogs and not just doing random breeding.



This is true and its why breeders look to place the dogs they don't plan to show or breed with loving homes. The breeders are well aware of their limits and how many dogs they can have in their household and STILL give the dogs the time of day to have well socialized animals.

In the last litter (more than 2 years ago), we had 6 puppies, and kept 2. One for show, one for my brother, who's been returned...and that's the limit of my house.

silaria said:
Over the years I've watched my breeder place adult dogs, including my CJ, with loving forever homes so they'd have a better life than she's able to provide for them.

Its not that she no longer cares for her dogs - that is SO NOT THE CASE. She still fawns over Edan and he's been with me since he was 7 months old (he'll be 4 years old in 1.5 weeks). Even after she places her dogs, they are still her kids! She'll dog sit for people who own her dogs. And she wants her dogs back if the new owners can't care for them any longer. Heck, my breeder has driven 2 hours to watch Edan and I compete in non-AKC Agility venues.

I don't know how someone can NOT care for dogs that they've produced. We've placed adult dogs, puppies, senior dogs, and we keep up on them all, at least for a period of time, because we wonder how they're doing.

I may never breed again. It's very likely that I'll "just" but puppies. But the things I've learned about dogs are irreplaceable. You can NOT make money if you breed-and are doing it right, IMO (unless you own The Phantom, RIP). Yeah, you might "make" 2000 off of one puppy. But how much money have you spent on that puppy? On the parents? Showing, handling etc?
 
Last edited:
Well, I made over 2000 on one litter

But how much of that money went right back into the dogs between paying for food, vet bills, toys, etc. Probably more than that $2,000.

That's the point I was trying to get at. You may "make" money when you sell the pups but in reality, you probably spent more than that just getting them to 10 weeks of age so its really not "making" money.
 
So in my college statistics class, we went over the statistics of playing the lottery on a regular basis. Basically, you put out a little bit each day or each week, and maybe twice in your life you win something decent. But that decent win may or may not make up for the money you have already put out. Of course this doesn't include the outliers who win $168M in one chunk. :smile2:

So anyway, breeding dogs is kind of like that. I put out several hundred dollars a month on food, show entries, vet care, etc. So selling puppies and making a few thousand dollars in one chunk seems cool, but when you look at the sunk costs, I am probably still in the red.
 
Back
Top