5 Generations Pedigree.

[missjenneygirl]

Hi Jessica,

This is the frustration of lots of owners, who in good faith think their breeder is reputable and will be there for their owners. Hopefully, not only for the first few months, but for the life of the dog. There could be more heartache and expense for other owners associated with this litter, and this breeder. Add in all the unknowns... seizures, hip displasia in puppies, retinal atrophy, auto-immune problems, and cancer. Illness and disease happens. How it is handled by the owner and hopefully in partnership with the breeder tells the whole story.

You're swimming alone in the ocean without a lifevest when you buy a dog from a pet store or commercial high volume breeder. Here on the Forum, we, your sheltie breeder friends, will pick up the slack and give you support along the way.

I send you, and Smudge a big hug.

Connie Nelson

 

[take4roll10]

Smudge's father is Max and his mother is Shelly. Max is also Shelly's father. I don't know if this would help any or not.

I'm not sure if you wrote this correctly or if I'm reading it right. But you're saying that Smudge's mother's father and smudge's father are the same dog????

Isn't that inbreeding? I don't know anything about breeding, but I would assume that's not a good thing.

 

[Smudge]

I'm not sure if you wrote this correctly or if I'm reading it right. But you're saying that Smudge's mother's father and smudge's father are the same dog????

Isn't that inbreeding? I don't know anything about breeding, but I would assume that's not a good thing.

Yes. That's right. Also, Max's parents were inbred. I don't know a lot about breeding either. I didn't know if that was ok or not. Well, I mean if they are obviously not testing for things then it's especially bad because you're breeding bad genes with bad genes.

I'm not giving up though. I've not yet found a sheltie owner who wasn't proud and thrilled of their dog. Somebody in my area bought a puppy from this woman, and eventually I'll find out one way or another. Sheltie owners love posting pictures, and somewhere there's 4 other 5 month old shelties with pictures/stories/videos posted somewhere. I just have to find them. The bad thing is that I don't know the name of the kennel. If I had the name of the kennel it might help, but I'm not sure how.

 

[Smudge]

Ok, so after searching I've found the kennel name, but here's where it gets confusing. There's a different email address listed from the one I used to try and contact her. So, what I'm going to do is give her the benefit of the doubt that she accidentally gave me the wrong email address (whatever ), and I'm going to try contacting her again. We'll see what happens.

 

[Lovely]

I believe that many dogs have a certain amount of inbreeding in them. Some breeders do line-breeding to get certain traits and such. I don't understand it all and don't claim such knowledge.

http://www.pedigreelines.com/

This site might help you find some of the dogs in the pedigree but it may not. I only did the 3 generation one for Duncan and didn't find any (most of the dogs are local with few litters). But for many of the dogs, you can view extensive pedigrees, see progeny, and see siblings (who may have kennel names). I believe there are also inbreeding percentages somewhere on there, as well.

Good luck with your search. Maybe you could post some of the pedigree here and someone might recognize a name or so? (you could edit some to protect the identities, as well) I would understand not doing that, though.

 

[Aztec]

Ok, so after searching I've found the kennel name, but here's where it gets confusing. There's a different email address listed from the one I used to try and contact her. So, what I'm going to do is give her the benefit of the doubt that she accidentally gave me the wrong email address (whatever ), and I'm going to try contacting her again. We'll see what happens.

It is possible that the email she gave you she no longer checks. I have three emails, but I only check one of them. Hopefully that is what has been going on. It would be very frustrating to be ignored.

I hope you can get everything sorted out!

 

[jazzyfizzle]

In this case I would try the email you found, and if no response, then I would send a letter by certified mail, stating what has happened with your puppy and that you would like contact, at least to discuss Smudge.
You could also try googling her phone number or email, if you haven't try that. Or do a search for 'shelties' and the breeder's town, sometimes that will produce some search hits.

I am really curious- since I have never known a sheltie with this condition, how the vet determined this is what Smudge has versus the other possible diseases? I would like to learn more about it.


I wanted to add, that in my opinion, once you showed the breeder written documentation and of course the sick puppy- in my opinion you would be entitled to a refund of your purchase price, or a replacement puppy. (by this - if it were I- I would of course let you keep Smudge, and then offer you another puppy for the situation you have had to endure. This wouldn't be to replace Smudge in your heart- but only fair compensation for your losses. Probably you would want the refund of purchase price and IMO that should be given. Unfortunately due to the type of breeder, she will likely not offer any of the above.)
Not that any of that would change how Smudge has suffered, but would be a gesture of good faith and a sort of compensation possible.
Big hugs to you and Smudge. He is very blessed to have you.

 

[BarbV]

It is possible that the email she gave you she no longer checks. I have three emails, but I only check one of them. Hopefully that is what has been going on. It would be very frustrating to be ignored.

I hope you can get everything sorted out!

You can always try the old fashioned way....snail mail! And if you really want to know if it was received, send it registered mail.

Try the Pedigreelines website that Lovely sent. You might find a trace of an ancestor there and be able to work forward and backward from there.

If you do find a "real" kennel name, you might want to contact THEM to let them know what's happened with their progeny. I'm betting that somewhere along the line a pup was sold on a non-breeding contract and was subsequently bred. And then the problems begin....

 

[sable]

In this case I would try the email you found, and if no response, then I would send a letter by certified mail, stating what has happened with your puppy and that you would like contact, at least to discuss Smudge.
You could also try googling her phone number or email, if you haven't try that. Or do a search for 'shelties' and the breeder's town, sometimes that will produce some search hits.

I am really curious- since I have never known a sheltie with this condition, how the vet determined this is what Smudge has versus the other possible diseases? I would like to learn more about it.


I wanted to add, that in my opinion, once you showed the breeder written documentation and of course the sick puppy- in my opinion you would be entitled to a refund of your purchase price, or a replacement puppy. (by this - if it were I- I would of course let you keep Smudge, and then offer you another puppy for the situation you have had to endure. This wouldn't be to replace Smudge in your heart- but only fair compensation for your losses. Probably you would want the refund of purchase price and IMO that should be given. Unfortunately due to the type of breeder, she will likely not offer any of the above.)
Not that any of that would change how Smudge has suffered, but would be a gesture of good faith and a sort of compensation possible.
Big hugs to you and Smudge. He is very blessed to have you.

Great advice! A registered letter will do the job to get to her. Call ASSA they are great when your researching. Go to ZABASEARCH.COM, listing of people and sometimes their business, and other data. My sister's breeder refused to call her back about her pup. She didn't tell him what she wanted, and I told my sister also, he has had complaints before also. In fact when she picked her pup up the breeder had a broker, the broker had the dam on her premises, and the broker refused to let my sister see the dam. WEIRD!

I don't mind a broker, but not to let my sister see the dam, that was wrong when the dam was there. Then the breeder refusing to call her back. She was told he was busy, but he wasn't busy to sell her a pup.

 

[Baileysmom]

I'm confused, it sounds like you are concerned about the inbreeding involved because of the mange your puppy has? I didn't think mange was a genetic problem, but rather an environmental problem. It's caused by bacteria/parasites on the skin, not by breeding two certain dogs together.

Inbreeding certainly can cause OTHER serious genetic defects, but I don't think mange is one of them.

Either way, the breeder doesn't sound very responsible. One, because the mange needs to be treated and erradicated from the dogs/puppies, and two, because she's inbreeding and making puppies without regard to their quality/genetic health.