5 Generations Pedigree.

I wasn't really concerned about inbreeding. :uhoh: I was only looking up his history to see if I might could find some of the other people who bought puppies from this woman. She still hasn't answered my emails. I didn't really expect her to. I'm done dealing with her. If she wants to ignore me I can't stop her. I can only pray that other people use caution and common sense - something I wish I would have done myself. :( I want to find the other puppy owners, because I want to know if anything has happened to their dog. I also want to warn them about the problem I've had with Smudge!

Smudge has hereditary mange. I don't think it's so much the mange itself that is hereditary (some people might argue with that), but more the weak immune system. It's not the normal type of mange that you are thinking about. This type of mange he can't give to people or other animals. I'm still reading about Sheltie Skin Syndrome. I'm keeping an extra close eye on his tail, because they say that's the one sure fire way to tell that your sheltie has it (the tail bone will be poking out from the skin). :yes:

I take Smudge back to the vet Wednesday for his (final?) dip. Sometime on my day off I'm going to look into researching some more of the dogs on his pedigree. I only have until the 30th, and then the pedigree with disappear and I'll have to pay to look at it. So I'll probably print it off so I don't lose it.
 
Oh, you are talking about the Sheltie "mange" where they lose their hair genetically. When I hear "mange", I think of sarcoptic mange which is a bacterial infection.

Yikes, I hope he doesn't have it--and I hope you get some answers from all of this.

I bought my first Sheltie from a pet shop that really was a store front for a puppy mill. I regretted it as well, but didn't know it when I bought him. He turned out to be a wonderful dog, had some problems, but gave me 14 wonderful years!
 
If you want the pedigree to keep, view it, right click, view page source. Right click on that, select all, copy, paste it into notepad, save as something like... pedigree.html (make sure you put .html it doesn't matter what you name it, just that it DOES include .html). Then go to either internet explorer or firefox or whatever you use, choose open file, and open it in there. From there, you can print a copy. Either way, you then have it permanently to do with as you like. Or if you want us to see it, get a webpage from a free place like webs.com and upload it there.
AKC has always done that... kept owner information private. I think it's interesting, considering I also have American Saddlebred horses, and they also offer a search (which I like theirs better, by the way- pay your yearly dues and do all of the research searches you want). They actually do post who the owner is, who the breeder is, and a listing of all previous owners of a horse.
I think it's terrible the way the breeder of Smudge is doing you. It makes me so MAD that there are breeders out there like her who give the rest of us bad names :/ It's people like her that the AR people use to fuel their fights against breeders. Did she offer any kind of contract when you purchased Smudge? Considering the type of breeder she is, I am doubting it, but still...
 
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Baileysmom said:
Oh, you are talking about the Sheltie "mange" where they lose their hair genetically. When I hear "mange", I think of sarcoptic mange which is a bacterial infection.

Yikes, I hope he doesn't have it--and I hope you get some answers from all of this.

I bought my first Sheltie from a pet shop that really was a store front for a puppy mill. I regretted it as well, but didn't know it when I bought him. He turned out to be a wonderful dog, had some problems, but gave me 14 wonderful years!
Click to expand...

Smudge has hereditary mange or "Demodectic Mange". That's what the vet said, but I'm not sure. That's why I'm looking into Sheltie Skin Syndrome to make sure that's not what he has. It's so confusing. :lol:

Thanks HopeShelties. I will do that. :yes:
 
Since you've done an excellent job of documenting this issue I would hope the AKC and ASSA would do more than file it.

Pushing it through their organizations is the only hope for something constructive to come of your work. Honestly though, I don't have much faith in any organization policing it's own. The organization's infrastructure and power base are supported by it's member's monetary infusion and those in power are usually loathe to upset their membership. Loss of membership equals loss of money.

It's disgusting that most state's legislatures can't be bothered to enact strict laws regarding animal husbandry. There's no excuse for puppy mills to exist anywhere. I worked for awhile in a certain area of the country known for it's puppy mills. Local natives told me many of the puppy mills were run by a certain religious group. I was stunned, but they assured me it was true. I know that's not the case everywhere, but I always wondered if that was why there were no crackdowns against them as a group.
 
Ariel,
They do, but unfortunately they usually do a poor job of it. These laws usually affect good breeders in many bad and limiting ways.They usually do not help to end the bad breeders, who already dodge the law to begin with.
Also, any type of law they enact is not going to prevent this breeder from breeding the type of dogs she's breeding, unless they banned breeding in general (and have in some areas). Look around the country at what has been enacted. They've enacted some of the uglier laws here where I live, and believe me when I say these laws the AR people have forced through are not helping.
No law is in place to require dogs be registered with a legitimate registry, and that they have all neccessary health testing for that individual breed done to be bred. There is nothing in place stating the dog must have a conformation or advanced performance title in place to be bred. There's nothing there to make them take care of fleas/worms/shots before passing puppies along to the public. These are the laws that would need to be in place for that woman not to be breeding. These are not the type of laws that will be put in place. Instead, they are the nightmares we're currently left fighting with.
 
Conditions usually associated with a puppy mill operation should get them shut down and the owners heavily fined, at a minimum. That's an easy start and every state should have animal cruelty laws with enough teeth to make them hurt. I'm talking large monetary fines, or potentially property confiscation and prison terms. Really. Hurt.

Then the problem does become one of registration, I agree. And you are right, this is where it gets stuck. Even if health records were required, there are always going to be substandard veterinarians willing to go along with substandard breeders. I wouldn't doubt that there are veterinarians actively involved in puppy mill operations. Having a medical degree doesn't guarantee compassion or integrity.

I don't believe conformation or advanced performance titles are, or should be, a breeding requirement.

Health, yes, including some genetic testing. There are known medical issues associated with certain breeds and basic genetic testing that cover those afflictions should be a breeding requirement.

So here we go with the registration again. It's going to be voluntary, just as it is now with the AKC and ASSA. However, and I'll say it again, I don't believe these organizations do a good job of policing their ranks. I'm not singling out the AKC or ASSA either. Heck, look at the AMA and ABA for prime examples of organizations that go to extremes to cover and protect their "red-headed stepchildren." (just an expression!!!)

I worked in the medical field for years and served on the IRB at one facility. Some of what I saw WAS criminal. Some was sloppy. What was consistent was the organization's complicity in the cover-up, records falsification, lying, - it would shock you.

So I don't hold canine organizations to a higher standard. I just wish they existed.

I want the AKC and ASSA to prove me wrong by taking action against Smudge's breeder. Kicking her out of the AKC would be a nice start, wouldn't it?
 
Hi Smudge and Jessica,

Here is a thought.....would it be possible to contact the local animal control officer that has jurisdiction over her area, and find out if there have been any complaints against her? Tell them your story. Also try the Better Business Bureau. I don't know where this will lead, but when people want to complain these are two avenues. Finding out if there have been any complaints will bolster your argument if you want to proceed with contacting the right department at AKC. Really, all you are going to be able to do, is get a lodged complaint on record with these different agencies........... Even that is good, because maybe there will be more in the future, or your's will be the one that does her in. I doubt that she is an ASSA member, so though they would take your complaint, I don't think anything would come of it. Only, that if she ever tried to become a member it would be on file.
 
I'm pretty sure she is running a puppy mill, but I don't know if it would fit puppy mill standards enough for her to get in trouble. There were SEVERAL different breeds of dogs in cages. I thought she had them locked up because she was showing me the puppies and didn't want the other dogs in the way. Boy do I feel stupid! She had about four or five grown shelties. Smudge's grandparents had different last names than the breeder's name. So I'm wondering if maybe she got divorced/married and that's why nothing under her name is coming up.


Here is the website I found that she was on:

http://www.pupchannel.com/

I wrote to that website complaining. I showed them pictures and provided them with my vet's phone number. They removed her link. I'm not saying all the people on that site are running a puppy mill operation, but it seems kind of odd. I didn't know about that website until after I got Smudge, by the way.

I did check the BBB and found nothing good or bad about her. I found nothing at all. When I change vets I'm going to ask them if they have heard of her. If there are other dogs with medical problems they have to take them to a vet somewhere!
 
Smudge said:
Smudge has hereditary mange or "Demodectic Mange". That's what the vet said, but I'm not sure. That's why I'm looking into Sheltie Skin Syndrome to make sure that's not what he has. It's so confusing.
Click to expand...


Hi Jessica, that is why I spoke about the biopsy, that is the determining test for DM. Even my vet, who is AAHA accredited and a talented old time farm vet, knows nothing about DM or about how to diagnose it. From the photos I have seen of Smudge, he did look a bit different than the one dog I saw with DM, but it is very possible it presents somewhat differently on each dog.
 
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