Advice: Vet claims I have a potentially aggressive pup?

[Silaria]

At three months of age, Bradley began to show a behavior I wasn't sure how to interpret. When held by certain people (mostly large males, new people he seemed uncertain of, or in a position he wasn't comfortable) he would lash out, growling, biting, squirming and baring his teeth occasionally. This has resulted in a bite by those whose hands were in proximity. -This happened with the vet the other day when Brad was getting some shots.

I went back and re-read this paragraph. It sounds to be, and I am not a behaviorist, that he's in a fear stage.

With the "large males" or new people he meets, hand them some yummy treats, have them kneel or sit to make themselves "smaller" and gently toss treats to him. Slowly work towards him having to come toward the person to get the treat (toss it a shorter distance for instance). Continue to work toward him taking the treat from the person's open palm. This should help associate new people with "good things".

No one he doesn't know should try to hold or pet him until Bradley comes up to them. Even then, I'd do so cautiously - such as treat in one hand and pet with the other, not reaching over his head, etc. Letting Bradley offer the behavior will make it more rewarding and more positive for the little guy.

It's going to take time and patience.

 

[Belladora]

OMG your vet does not know Shelties at all. You have been given some great suggestions here already so i can only agree. Bless your heart, what a putz. I am sorry I know thats your vet, but (he or she) really needs to be more knowlege of the breed before giving some of that advise.

Bella would squirm and wiggle from when we got her till about a month ago and my puppy class teacher told me not to comfort her to ignore her and only let her down the second she stops, to wait for it and then let her down. I understand you little guy may not do that with you but it may help for family. Its like a tantrum so you treat it as such.. I would give everyone treats when they came over to give to her and i also asked some of my neighbors when we went on walks, i kept some in my pocket. She was not aggressive towards them just a wiggle butt. Now she thinks she is queen of shiba and she does not understand that every person on the streets is not in love with her.

Give it time and be patient, he is young and he is a SHELTIE. He is going to do just fine. He may never be the social king but he will learn to tolerate the people in your life becuase he loves and trusts you

 

[Sir Bradley]

BTW - putting his head under your arm is a great fear response and worth encouraging. It gives him an alternative to snapping or nipping (did he actually bite - bite involves breaking the skin or using the canines/whole mouth). I taught my timid female to go between my legs when she is fearful and its now an automatic response - she will run between any human legs for protection (and sometimes hide under her canine buddies).

He almost always does this. He will do it in the car if he is in my lap or rest his head in the crook of my neck when he settles. When meeting dogs his retreat area is between my legs where he then thinks he is a tough guy and lets out a bark or two. I also think because he was dominant in his litter, he isn't used to bigger stronger dogs/humans?

Great advice though... He is at a puppy group training at petsmart. So far it has been decent. Clicker training mixed with a little socialization. He's very easy to train so it was more to get him out and used to trips/people/puppys ...etc.

I feel much better hearing your advice

 

[Toffee's Mom]

*sigh*
whatever you do, if you follow that vet's advice you WILL get what you feared... an aggressive dog.. when right now he's just fearful
Nobody should hold your dog that way until he is comfortable. Continue getting him out, let others give him treats and get another vet.

 

[Justicemom]

Sounds like a fear reaction. Continuing to hold down a young puppy to the point where he feels trapped he needs to resort to biting is a good way to increase aggression at the vet and fear around strangers. A good puppy kindergarten class to get him out and around new people and dogs would be great. Day care is unstructured and not really teaching him skills he needs. Teaching him to stand a elevated surfaces is also great. Put a non slip surface like rubber drawer liner on your table .feed him alots of good treats, reward calm behavior, handle him all over. He when he is good with that. Have a friend play vet but just rubbing their hands on him as you steady him by the collar and pop treats into his little mouth when he is tolerating touching him. When he is good with that have your friend start to lift a foot, lightly pinch his skin in various places, always reward calm brave behavior and ignore shy or nervous ones. Take it slow and keep it positive. I always like to have my puppy owners who's pups are really nervous come in get treats and love and leave. Helps alot. My goal is to always work for need for minimum restrant.

 

[Sir Bradley]

*sigh*
whatever you do, if you follow that vet's advice you WILL get what you feared... an aggressive dog.. when right now he's just fearful
Nobody should hold your dog that way until he is comfortable. Continue getting him out, let others give him treats and get another vet.

Thats what I was afraid of. I wanted others opinions before going out and practicing this. I could see in his eyes that the restraint wasn't calming his actual fear it just forced him to give up his only way he knew how to react. He said he has to know we are in control but something tells me there are much easier ways, especially with such a responsive breed.

 

[mbfrench]

Unusual behavior? For a reserved Sheltie? Horse puckey!! This little guy is just three months old. At that age, my Beckon didn't want anything to do with new people or new situations -- vet included! When I brushed him, he snarled and bit at my fingers. He wasn't "aggressive;" he was scared. It took patience and familiarization to make grooming tolerable, if not a pleasure. The vet will NEVER be a pleasure for Beckon!

Patient socialization is the key. Never rush Bradley. Eventually he'll be interested in other dogs, but he may always be wary -- Beckon is until he gets to know the dog.

As for people, I would recommend not letting anyone pick him up for a while unless he shows interest in snuggling with that person. Beckon picked favorites among new acquaintences and definitely preferred females. We never let him get "trapped" by anyone but his imediate family. We always allowed him the respect to stay away if he didn't want to go near someone -- we just didn't make a big deal of it. Now he's great -- in fact, I thought he was going to walk off with a group of guys we met while hiking yesterday!

I could not agree more!

This is a very young pup,the best thing for him is to expose him to ALL kinds of things.People,places,stairs,elevators,..grocery carts..you get the idea.If you have a pup,that rides well with you in the vehicle,he needs to get out more.

As he ages,he will become comfortable.Bring treats with you when you go places,and if someone asks if they can pet him,give them a treat,and let the pup make the move.Cornering,or forcing a little one at this age will only set you up for most times disaterous future outings.

I think your vet is a ninny.No offense,but honestly does not know this breed to even remotely tell you you have an agressive pup in the makings.
He is seeing your dog in an office,on hard surfaces,strange people,not at the leisure and comfort of your home.When the pup is playing,or resting,interacting with you or family members. What a putz~

My Trapp will sometimes burrow his head in the crook of my neck,acting coy sometimes,but its very short lived.I know I do not feed off him,and coddle him even more,I reasure him,do introductions,offer the person a treat to offer to Trapp.And the moment is gone,and all ends well.

They are so impressionable at this age.
P.S. I'd get another vet,don't take that the wrong way,but I know if my vet told me I had the makings of an agressive dog..I'd be gone~

 

[SheepOfBlue]

Thanks so much OntarioSheltie. I was honestly close to tears afterwards because I could tell it was mainly fear that was instigating Bradley's response. It was odd too because the nurse had just finished telling me what a sweet pup I had after she took him to weigh him. (she held him under the belly) When he sees familiar people he is a ball of play, tail wagging and play barks. The last thing I want to do is break his spirit, or trust that he has in my husband and I.

The petsmart trainer only said "Get him used to it" and" Good luck with that" when we asked him.... but positive reinforcement seems to be the way to go with these guys IMO.

I will start rewarding him when he plays well with newcomers.... Hopefully he will gain confidence.

Do you cruise him around Petsmart ever? I am planning on bringing Sca back this weekend for a tour. He sees people and dogs and smells. That actually does get him used to it some. Sca's problem is he likes to jump on people and is sure EVERYEONE is his bestus buddy.

I missed the 3 months part. He is just timid and defensive. Get him some time at Petsmart around a bunch of people and maybe even ask a guy (stranger) to calmly approach with treats. I think many would be happy to help unless you are in the lizard isle (though I bring Sca down all the isles) I am betting with some time it won't be as scary for him.

 

[Sumac3890]

I agree with the rest get him out and got to malls, I took Zak to Lowes and jsut walked around. He is so young and I doubt your vet knows much about Shelties. Plus at the vets they are scared lots of scary people and smells.

 

[Justicemom]

They are so impressionable at this age.
P.S. I'd get another vet,don't take that the wrong way,but I know if my vet told me I had the makings of an agressive dog..I'd be gone~

The vet most likely had good intentions. Some puppies fall outside the norm in reactivity and reactively biting hard is not normal in tiny pups especially when nothing for than petting is being done to them. Those are the ones that develop issues usually fear aggression if nothing is done.. I always discuss socialization and puppy classes and stress it with those puppies that are more reactive. Fear aggression is very common and extra time to carefully socialize, handle and train these pups is needed. Hopefulluy that is what the vet was trying to point out(although badly).

I have told 2 people in 12 yrs their dogs were going to be big problems that young. One was a 10 wk Husky. He was very calm(too calm),very watchful and just stood on the table and then exploded out and bit down with no bite inhibition. I was worrried about the lack of bite inhibition and the zero to all reaction. Suggested early and often socaialization and getting in a puppy class ASAP and going for minimum of 6 months straight and discussed training bite inhibition. They didn't go to any class and did nothing with the dog. By 5 months he could barely be handled for his neuter. At 9 months, He bit the 12yr daugther in the calf as she walked by. At 11 months, he bit a dog trainer in the chest. At 13 months, He bit the adult female owner in the forearm and wouldn't let go. She had 14-15 stitches. He was put down then.

The other a 7wk old white GSD, again no bite inhibititon(bit me 3 times on the forearm before I could move and drew blood-was standing on the table and I touched he shoulder), severe fear reaction(barking lunging ,snapping on the floor, on lead before visit). Talked about socialization handling, bite habition training and classes when old enough. Again owner ignored all advise. Put down at 16 months for severe fear aggression and severely biting the neighbor.