Advice: Vet claims I have a potentially aggressive pup?

OntarioSheltie said:
I'm sorry, but that advice your vet gave you sounds like a big steamy pile of BS to me. Time to find a new vet, IMO.

Boy, does that EVER steam me. I can't believe that a professional like a vet would go so low as to take advantage of one of his patients.:mad: Trying to convince you to have other people socialize your dog away from you is completely absurd. Socializing your puppy is a big part in building your relationship with him!

This vet is only thinking about making money and not for the welfare of your pup. If he was really that concerned about aggression he would have suggested a dog behaviorist or training classes to get a handle on things, not doggie daycare.

From what you've described you're doing everything right. Keep doing what you're doing.

When you're at puppy training you could try asking the other puppy owners to give your pup treats, so that he'll be more comfortable with strangers.
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I agree, time for a new Vet. I cannot imagine our vet saying that to us. Get another Vets opinion, that will ease your mind. Your puppy is just a baby!!
Karen
 
Justicemom said:
The vet most likely had good intentions. Some puppies fall outside the norm in reactivity and reactively biting hard is not normal in tiny pups especially when nothing for than petting is being done to them. Those are the ones that develop issues usually fear aggression if nothing is done.. I always discuss socialization and puppy classes and stress it with those puppies that are more reactive. Fear aggression is very common and extra time to carefully socialize, handle and train these pups is needed. Hopefulluy that is what the vet was trying to point out(although badly).

I have told 2 people in 12 yrs their dogs were going to be big problems that young. One was a 10 wk Husky. He was very calm(too calm),very watchful and just stood on the table and then exploded out and bit down with no bite inhibition. I was worrried about the lack of bite inhibition and the zero to all reaction. Suggested early and often socaialization and getting in a puppy class ASAP and going for minimum of 6 months straight and discussed training bite inhibition. They didn't go to any class and did nothing with the dog. By 5 months he could barely be handled for his neuter. At 9 months, He bit the 12yr daugther in the calf as she walked by. At 11 months, he bit a dog trainer in the chest. At 13 months, He bit the adult female owner in the forearm and wouldn't let go. She had 14-15 stitches. He was put down then.

The other a 7wk old white GSD, again no bite inhibititon(bit me 3 times on the forearm before I could move and drew blood-was standing on the table and I touched he shoulder), severe fear reaction(barking lunging ,snapping on the floor, on lead before visit). Talked about socialization handling, bite habition training and classes when old enough. Again owner ignored all advise. Put down at 16 months for severe fear aggression and severely biting the neighbor.
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This is so sad. My former GSD/Belgian shepherd had male sibling who were put down for agression. Our shepherd had protective of property issues, but we were very very careful, and once off the property our dog was very predictable, and we still miss her, she died at 11.5 yrs. Then we got our beloved Sandstorm!!!!
I am wondering if the dogs you mention in your vet experience were part wolf, especially the Husky? Just a thought.
Karen
 
This is sad to me. Ellie, even as a wee pup, did not trust people other than her Dad and me to hold her. People ALWAYS want to pick up puppies, but some puppies just don't want to be picked up or held! Ellie was a terrible squirm worm. I stopped letting other people pick her up when she was about three months old when I actually caught her mid-air when a neighbor lady picked her up and then lost her grip on Ellie!! Talk about my heart being in my throat! If I hadn't been standing close to the neighbor, my beautiful 3 month old puppy would have been dropped onto a tile floor from about four feet! :no:

Ellie, like a lot of other Shelties, does not consider other people her family or her friends. She is always friendly to all other people, but that does not mean she would trust them to do something as intimate as picking her up and restraining her.

Ellie has been to our vet so many gazillions of times that Dr. Royce has become one of two people that she allows to restrain her. He always talks to her, does the minimal restraining possible and gets whatever that needs to be done efficiently and quickly. He talks to her afterwards and pets her the whole time he talks to us. He also is very well aware that she is a chow hound and gives her a treat when she is done. We also go often to the office when Ellie does not have to have anything done. We have the staff give her treats and have Dr. Royce come out (if possible) and just give her a treat. Ellie also gets groomed at the vet's office by the world's best, gentlest, sweetest groomer who I totally trust. Ellie LOVES MS. Terry! Ms. Terry also can restrain her without a problem (to trim ears, etc.s). Those two people have a relationship of TRUST with Ellie that was built up over a long period of time.

So, your wee puppy not liking to be restrained in a threatening manner does not surprise me. He does need to learn over a period of time to submit to you correctly restraining him for his own benefit (possible injury, checking for fleas/ticks, grooming, etc). However, strangers man-handling him and him reacting negatively "does not an agrressive dog make."
 
Thanks Lahree! That was very helpful, as he approaches everyone in a friendly manner. And everyone really does love to go and pick up a fluffy little sheltie pup... and who can blame them!? :wink2:

We actually took him to Petsmart today during one of their busy days with all the pups for adoption and such. He took treats from the hands of toddlers calmly, and approached those who crouched down and waited for him to come to them. He even allowed a few people to pet the side of his neck while I was holding him (he usually gets squirmy at this). He only grumbled once when my husband picked him up and some dogs were barking... but we gave him some treats and he settled perfectly fine and we let him down.

I am definitely going to search for a new vet and explain my concerns and approach to socialize him. I would never want to ignore anything and address issues correctly.

I like the idea of "playing vet" at home, too. Good ideas. :yes:
 
KarenCurtis said:
This is so sad. My former GSD/Belgian shepherd had male sibling who were put down for agression. Our shepherd had protective of property issues, but we were very very careful, and once off the property our dog was very predictable, and we still miss her, she died at 11.5 yrs. Then we got our beloved Sandstorm!!!!
I am wondering if the dogs you mention in your vet experience were part wolf, especially the Husky? Just a thought.
Karen
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Nope no wolf. The husky was actually a really good example of the breed physically. His aggression was more status related. The GSD just a really poorly bred BYB white dog, taken too early from his mother and not socaialized properly.:(
 
Justicemom said:
Nope no wolf. The husky was actually a really good example of the breed physically. His aggression was more status related. The GSD just a really poorly bred BYB white dog, taken too early from his mother and not socaialized properly.:(
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We got our GSD/Belgian at 6 weeks of age, too early, and the pups were living outside in a box :rolleyes2:, the parents were in pens in the back yard. We were SO lucky to have her, and she us. We just had to be so careful- the only time she would ever bite anyone was if someone came on the property, so when company came we put her in a different room - I can't stand BYB. Sandstorms breeder and pedigree was researched correctly by us, and the difference is great. I would never get a dog any other way now.
Karen
 
Fear aggression, just warrants Good socialization skills !

Justicemom said:
The vet most likely had good intentions. Some puppies fall outside the norm in reactivity and reactively biting hard is not normal in tiny pups especially when nothing for than petting is being done to them. Those are the ones that develop issues usually fear aggression if nothing is done.. I always discuss socialization and puppy classes and stress it with those puppies that are more reactive. Fear aggression is very common and extra time to carefully socialize, handle and train these pups is needed. Hopefulluy that is what the vet was trying to point out(although badly).

I have told 2 people in 12 yrs their dogs were going to be big problems that young. One was a 10 wk Husky. He was very calm(too calm),very watchful and just stood on the table and then exploded out and bit down with no bite inhibition. I was worrried about the lack of bite inhibition and the zero to all reaction. Suggested early and often socaialization and getting in a puppy class ASAP and going for minimum of 6 months straight and discussed training bite inhibition. They didn't go to any class and did nothing with the dog. By 5 months he could barely be handled for his neuter. At 9 months, He bit the 12yr daugther in the calf as she walked by. At 11 months, he bit a dog trainer in the chest. At 13 months, He bit the adult female owner in the forearm and wouldn't let go. She had 14-15 stitches. He was put down then.

The other a 7wk old white GSD, again no bite inhibititon(bit me 3 times on the forearm before I could move and drew blood-was standing on the table and I touched he shoulder), severe fear reaction(barking lunging ,snapping on the floor, on lead before visit). Talked about socialization handling, bite habition training and classes when old enough. Again owner ignored all advise. Put down at 16 months for severe fear aggression and severely biting the neighbor.
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Right on target ! Puppy Classes given by people who are accredited is the best way to bring these pups out of their fear. They are still animals and when not breed for correct temperment and socialized correctly by the breeders as they are developing this is the results occasionally. That's why it's important to do your homework on the breed, breeders, and how to raise a pup. Unfortunately they don't come with total guarantees but we must do our absolute best in Socialization and proper training of our furkids.:wink2:
 
The GSD just a really poorly bred BYB white dog
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I have heard that white GSDs are more prone to having aggression problems, so add in BYB and poor socialisation and you have a right mix!
 
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