Does she know?

[mellie]

They know. I will NEVER forget the looks on our practice dogs' faces when they were caught digging in a large potted plant at work one day.

Ellie the great dane and Zeva the golden were in an exam room digging in a very large potted plant that had just been watered. The ENTIRE exam room was covered in mud- the cupboards and windows and blinds and all the stuff on the counters and the poor plant was shredded all over the muddy room. There was dirt on the ceiling- I guess one of them shook the roots.

They were covered in mud and barking at each other. When we went to the door and looked in we were speechless, but they became slinkies and cowered and their ears went down; pasted to their heads and they would not look at us. We busted out laughing it was such a sight.

They know when we are happy with them and when we aren't. They know they should not be digging in big potted plants, or chewing on walls or draping toilet paper all over, but they just can't help themselves. They realize that they have screwed up when we appear. Then they feel guilty.

 

[missjenneygirl]

I can truly understand Buddy, there was no one else home to pin it on.

My dogs, 8 at the moment, have figured out that if they all look innocent, I can't blame anyone. They all have the look of surprise, like they have no idea how it happened. But like seasoned criminals, guilt is just under the surface, and if I stare at them long enough, the culprit will crack.
Really, they all are very good, and of late, the only problem is who is tearing up the cushy mat under the kitchen rugs? Probably the one chewing a piece of it like bubble gum!

 

[mellie]

I can truly understand Buddy, there was no one else home to pin it on.

My dogs, 8 at the moment, have figured out that if they all look innocent, I can't blame anyone. They all have the look of surprise, like they have no idea how it happened. But like seasoned criminals, guilt is just under the surface, and if I stare at them long enough, the culprit will crack.
Really, they all are very good, and of late, the only problem is who is tearing up the cushy mat under the kitchen rugs? Probably the one chewing a piece of it like bubble gum!

Ha ha ,I can just picture 8 shelties all trying to look innocent !!

 

[corbinam]

I am loving these stories--thanks for sharing, everyone!

It sounds like dogs definitely understand right and wrong, and I know there's been a scientific study that shows that they can feel guilt. I certainly won't make it a point to scold Lexi if this happens again, but it's interesting to note that she can probably tell if I'm disappointed whether I say something or not. I think the trick (as I've known for quite some time!) is to just prevent it as best I can!

A great tip for you and Lexi, (to discourage from chewing that area again) is to have a piece of clear plexi-glass cut to fit the area. Use the two sided sticky buttons to hold it in place. You can get it to cover a corner edge or just the piece of wall. I had to do this next to my sun room door. Linus would ALWAYS scratch at the wall just along the door frame as I was trying to open the door to let the dogs out. He gouged the drywall. It drove me crazy. I went to a window/glass store and they cut me a piece for about $8.oo. Saved the wall, and no one really noticed the small piece of plexi-glass. It takes a lot for a dog to scratch plexi-glass!

This sounds like a great idea! Can you clarify what "sticky buttons" you mean?

 

[SheltieChe]

Our emotions is a chemical response. You get excited or angry- your breathing pattern change, your heart rate change, amount of hormones and variety of it change, skin get cold or flushed, sweaty, pupils dilated etc.
Dogs read it.
Body language. Just like you do not need to ask when your hubby comes home and opens the door, you know how his day went without anything being said.
Dogs get it before we do.
I do not believe it is possible for the dog to think ¨I know it is wrong to do but I am stubborn and am still going to trash that wall¨ and then feel guilty when found because they did not listen to you in first place. It is abstract thinking, which dogs do not possess.

 

[missjenneygirl]

Sticky buttons, come on a small sheet. They are about 1/16th to 1/8 thickness, and different sizes. You can also cut them with scissors. You peel one off the main sheet, and then pull off the little cover on the top side, and both sides are really sticky. Maybe made by 3M company. Usually over where you find those rubber-y picture holders that are removable. The sticky buttons allow you to take up the plexi-glass if you want to paint or no longer need it.

I used them because I didn't want to put any holes in the wall. It is awesome how you can get plexi-glass cut to exactly the size and shape you need.
I had my sister put it on her window sills after her boxer dog kept gouging the sill as he went wild when dogs walked by their house. Cut to fit, and I think people thought it was so plants could be there and not ruin the wood sill, LOL!

 

[Caro]

Trini has put it really well.

I would say she knows your angry, she probably does remember chewing the wall, but whether she puts together you're being angry with her actions is where the science says not. You could be looking at a chair and you probably would have still gotten the same result. I can tell as soon as I get home if Tully has been on the benchtop - her greeting is over-the-top because she's on a high. If I get angry the tail drops and she looks upset, but I get the same response if I react in the kitchen or as soon as I walk in the door - so I know she's only reacting to my being upset.

As Trini said, scolding can cause confusion and as you know it's difficult to train a dog when they're confused so telling them off is really only for our benefit, not theirs. That's why it's recommended to scold the 'thing' done rather than the dog. Mind you, growling at the benchtop has never cured Tully of counter-surfing, I think in the 'reward trade off' what I can offer (not being angry) is way below whatever she finds on the bench..

 

[corbinam]

As Trini said, scolding can cause confusion and as you know it's difficult to train a dog when they're confused so telling them off is really only for our benefit, not theirs. That's why it's recommended to scold the 'thing' done rather than the dog. Mind you, growling at the benchtop has never cured Tully of counter-surfing, I think in the 'reward trade off' what I can offer (not being angry) is way below whatever she finds on the bench..

Oh yes--I would never truly scold her for something like this (at least after the fact, haha!) I just wondered if I pointed at it and just brought her attention to it what her reaction would be.

 

[mellie]

Our emotions is a chemical response. You get excited or angry- your breathing pattern change, your heart rate change, amount of hormones and variety of it change, skin get cold or flushed, sweaty, pupils dilated etc.
Dogs read it.
Body language. Just like you do not need to ask when your hubby comes home and opens the door, you know how his day went without anything being said.
Dogs get it before we do.
I do not believe it is possible for the dog to think ¨I know it is wrong to do but I am stubborn and am still going to trash that wall¨ and then feel guilty when found because they did not listen to you in first place. It is abstract thinking, which dogs do not possess.

Not abstract thinking but rather cause and effect thinking such as; when I do this, this happens.

When Sally goes to lick the sore on her leg she looks at me first to see if I am looking at her then stops when she sees me watching her" type thing". I have told her "no" when she has gone to lick it in the past and she remembers that. But, had I not been in the room or even watching her she would have begun to lick and if I came in the room and saw her doing it she would give a guilty "you caught me look".

I think they are child like in that they are just too tempted and go ahead and do it- not trying to be rebellious but just being impulsive. Most destructive behavior by dogs goes on when their master's are not home or watching what they are doing because they know they will get caught while doing it. They wait til we are gone and then the fun begins.

Just like my cat doesn't jump on the kitchen counter while I am in the kitchen she knows to wait til I am out of the room. When I come into the kitchen and catch her in the act she will look guilty and small knowing she will be swooshed off the counter and chased by the frantically barking sheltie that told me she was up on the counter in the first place !!

 

[SheltieChe]

Mellie, that is an example of operant conditioning and I would say Sally is training you probably more than you train her in this one
My pup can be just as peacefully chewing on the cord when I am sitting at the computer as if I were not in the house I would say it is more boredom and lack of attention that makes him do it than anything else like being impulsive. Might have something to do with my habit to give them a chewy when I work at computer...
This is the reason why we compare dogs with children, especially toddlers, those are concrete literal thinkers, just like you can not explain to toddler that grandma went to heaven and is not coming back, you can not explain past present and future to dogs although dogs are aware of time. This is why cue ¨Don´t do it¨generally does not work as it is abstract. Dogs respond much better to Sit, Down etc