Dogs not wanting to do agility

[Sharon]

Agility

I guess I should clarify that any dog could be a decent agility dog--doesn't mean that they will Q all the time (or even frequently) but I think every dog has the potential (minus physical limitations) to be able to do the obstacles with a certain degree of enthusiasm.

But, the dog would have to be in the right hands. I couldn't do it, and I consider myself a somewhat decent trainer. I'm talking the best of the best out there that understand how dogs work, learn and think.

My girlfriends dogs are in the right hands and no amount of training she did helped.She trains with a world team member.All the training in the world is not going to make them like it.You can train world team, back yard trainers.Sure you can teach them the obstacles doesnt mean they are gonna like it.

 

[Toffee's Mom]

My girlfriends dogs are in the right hands and no amount of training she did helped.She trains with a world team member.All the training in the world is not going to make them like it.You can train world team, back yard trainers.Sure you can teach them the obstacles doesnt mean they are gonna like it.

I generally agree with you on the topic, Sharon but one thing... imo
Just because someody is world team member, it does NOT make them a good trainer by default... There is so much more to it than that lol.. especially about teaching how a dog learns etc... I still believe all dogs can do agility, for sure. But I agree with you that some may just not like it and they just indulge us for the most part.

I am starting to meet lots of instructors state level who are good with their border collies but trying to help my friend train her Boston, they are kinda funny... or even trying to 'help' my awesome Instructor with her Borzoi also funny to watch sometimes. But both these dogs L O V E agility, their handlers are thankfully in tune on how to motivate and train them, but aware the Border Collie approach that some of the the top handlers use will not work same way with their breeds...

One of them whom I no longer talk to or train with was even speaking out of her butt when it came to dog reactivity and in TOTAL denial about her own dog being reactive!! But she will make the world team one day... Good riddance I say for myself, but she knows agility, but NOT dog behaviour and how to interact with people So I say she didn't make a good trainer!!

 

[SheltieChe]

My girlfriends dogs are in the right hands and no amount of training she did helped.She trains with a world team member.All the training in the world is not going to make them like it.You can train world team, back yard trainers.Sure you can teach them the obstacles doesnt mean they are gonna like it.

hmm, lets see- your next puppy will be puppy mill rehab... cute darling but still shuts down when you flush the toilet...
do you really think that training with world team members and knowing how to train agility will be all you need to turn that dog around? and I am not even talking about huge response cost on human part to make such commitment, it will take months if not years to bring that unlikely champion to even step their foot at agility trial... and if that dog shuts down... what will you say? dog does not like agility? or human is not good enough trainer to understand, motivate, arouse, heal that dog?
I won't make such commitment either because I do know that I have no patience, intuitive intelligence or behavioral training for such job but if I did, dog shutting down at agility class would not be dog's fault for not liking agility...

 

[Sharon]

hmm, lets see- your next puppy will be puppy mill rehab... cute darling but still shuts down when you flush the toilet...
do you really think that training with world team members and knowing how to train agility will be all you need to turn that dog around? No, I don't think that training with a world team trainer is gonna make any difference or any behavorial specialist either.And I don't buy puppies from puppy mills either.If my dog was walking, trotting around a course I would not even bother wasting my money on entries.

 

[ortegah]

ahh, but here is the problem... more often than not it is a handler's problem, not the dog... some people go through the dogs so often looking for the next perfect one...
"Dogs we have are reflection of our training abilities" this comes from legend animal trainer Bob Bailey. And Bob should know, there probably no species of animals that he did not train- snails, spiders, ants, birds etc
Can you train a cat to walk half a mile to nearest farmers market and sit on the certain corner for 30 minutes and return back home? I can't but yes, it can and is done on routine basis...
I wish SG published her training journal from years back about JRT she got at 10 months old, who was a kennel dog, never seen anything but another JRT, was as they say sweet but totally dull, boring puppy who had absolutely no interest in food or toys, who peed on the floor the moment anyone came near him...
The journal is excellent read although it is real journal with daily entries about training sessions and what happened during. I had tears in my eyes when after about a month Susan made an entry that JRT finally took a !@#$ ball in his mouth and she never in her life worked so hard on such simple behavior... later that dog went to flyball home and become most achieving influental flyball dog in history... that is not where he started...
it is not dogs, people... it is us and our limitations of what we know and do

I don't think that's necessarily true. I've seen plenty of handlers that have other dogs that run just beautifully for them and then they have one dog that just simply doesn't want to do it. And they can hoop and hollar and play all they want on the field but you can see the dog is just not having fun. Head down, standing still on a course, wandering off...

Actually I had a Sheltie that was a rescue and we did take her to classes for a while. She'd take a jump because I asked her to and then run and hide under the car and refuse to come out. All the toys and treats and happy cheering did nothing for her. We tried for a while and did some stuff for fun later on, but I would've never forced her to do agility. She just simply did not like it and while she'd do a few things to make me happy, she'd run off and hide every time after a run.

Now let's contrast that with my Trax. He absolutely loves agility. He lives for it. He goes outside to potty and we can look out the window and watch him doing weave poles by himself. Of course that's not your typical dog

Regardless I do believe that you can tell in some dogs when they really do not like agility and no, I wouldn't force my dog to do it if he didn't like it.

 

[Tagg]

Trax sounds like my daughter's dog Gem. Gem loves to do repetitive things. When she is at her rally class and they take a break, she will run over to the A Frame, go to the top and let out a bark. She never misses her contact even when she is just amusing herself. She runs up the dog walk and down the other side repeatedly. The teeter is a blast and she likes to make it make noise. She just loves the whole game.
Contrast that with her other dog Connor. He does all the equipment at a steady pace but not with enthusiasm. He loves herding, rally and even obedience but agility is something he just does.
Does he dislike agility? In my opinion he's not amused by it. Wisely, my daughter trains Gem for agility and Connor in other sports. Like me, she is happy to see them happy at what they are doing and what she can do with them. We once had an absolutely beautiful singleton bitch puppy out of a breeding I had planned for a number of years. Ella was everything I wanted, great confirmation, beautiful coat, great dark pigment - just what I was hoping for. Problem was she hated being shown. She was totally bored by the whole process and while her tail was up there was no spark - deadly in the terrier ring. I could have kept her to breed from but I knew she wanted just to be a pet so we spayed her and placed her in a companion home where she did pet therapy. I think we have to keep in mind that the dogs are companions first and performance dogs a distant second.

 

[ortegah]

I think we have to keep in mind that the dogs are companions first and performance dogs a distant second.

EXCELLENT point! We forget sometimes that they aren't really there to do just what we tell them but they are there to be our buddy

 

[SheltieChe]

Rules of my book- Fluffy does not know what agility is, or obedience or rally... Fluffy gets drafted to do agility or rally with me... Fluffy did not decide that she does not like agility. I did. So in all I can not rightly say that Fluffy does not like agility. I can say that I failed to bring up joy so Fluffy is enjoying her time with me. Because teaching Fluffy main rule of dog training " Fluffy wants what mommy wants" is basic.
Thus acronym DASH. It does not matter whether it is 1 minute training session or 30 minutes one... if I do not have D as desire and enthusiasm, if my dog is not asking me to go play with them we won't be having a training session. And while we might never be good at agility or obedience we will be having fun. Because for us play is work and work is play.
And I feel stupid enough with my own/ not without their faults/ but still stable, happy energetic dogs to ever consider taking on a challenge of dog with behavioral challenges beyond my knowledge. Kudos to those that do.
Because if I ended up having Susan Garrett's fearful Decaff or over the top Buzzy or Silvia Trkman "autistic" Bu who does not understand human emotions... not only they would not be champions but we would not have been able to do anything... and it would not be those dogs fault. It would be mine.
But that is far out of question Sharon asked. What I would have liked to know if that owner understands stress her dog is having during agility classes and is looking for help or if she is ignorant and clueless. If she is looking for help maybe one of you in class who has better understanding can help and point her in right direction. Sometimes people do want help they just do not know how to get to where they want to be.

 

[Sharon]

Agility

Rules of my book- Fluffy does not know what agility is, or obedience or rally... Fluffy gets drafted to do agility or rally with me... Fluffy did not decide that she does not like agility. I did. So in all I can not rightly say that Fluffy does not like agility. I can say that I failed to bring up joy so Fluffy is enjoying her time with me. Because teaching Fluffy main rule of dog training " Fluffy wants what mommy wants" is basic.
Thus acronym DASH. It does not matter whether it is 1 minute training session or 30 minutes one... if I do not have D as desire and enthusiasm, if my dog is not asking me to go play with them we won't be having a training session. And while we might never be good at agility or obedience we will be having fun. Because for us play is work and work is play.
And I feel stupid enough with my own/ not without their faults/ but still stable, happy energetic dogs to ever consider taking on a challenge of dog with behavioral challenges beyond my knowledge. Kudos to those that do.
Because if I ended up having Susan Garrett's fearful Decaff or over the top Buzzy or Silvia Trkman "autistic" Bu who does not understand human emotions... not only they would not be champions but we would not have been able to do anything... and it would not be those dogs fault. It would be mine.
But that is far out of question Sharon asked. What I would have liked to know if that owner understands stress her dog is having during agility classes and is looking for help or if she is ignorant and clueless. If she is looking for help maybe one of you in class who has better understanding can help and point her in right direction. Sometimes people do want help they just do not know how to get to where they want to be.

Plain and Simple!!The dog does not want to do agility!!!!You can not make a dog like it.In my opinon a dog that walks through a course, barely runs thru a course or trots "DOES" not want to do it.You can come up with all your wisdom, your Susan Garrett stuff and it all boils down in my book they do not want to do it.I don't care who you train with.When you start competing and have a few titles on your dog come talk to me.

 

[SheltieChe]

I can't seem to get the exact location on my iPad, but if you click on http://silvia.trkman.net/training.htm and then Training weave poles see saw speed and more and go to page 2 you will get an idea of how/why she trains the way she does. I tend to agree.

Cheryl,
My take on Silvia is she is very intuitive and gifted trainer but she kinda light on sciences and does not have methodologies and rules of what she does explained clearly. So you need to read through her blogs, watch her DVD, be in her lessons to get an idea where she is coming from. One thing that bothered me while auditing her classes is many of her answers had message " Do what works best for you and your dog"... duh in my translation because if I knew what works best for my dog or even knew what are my choices I would not be in that class to begin with... so it was just one of those things, you need to "click" with your teacher and the way teacher presents to have your best learning stimulated. Here is the gal, one of recallers buddies that really "gets" Silvia and her training, you might want to chat with her, she is very nice person and very helpful.
http://artanddogblog.wordpress.com/