The dog does not want to do agility.For me any dog that trots around a ring or barely runs is not enjoying themselves.They are doing it because they have no choice,The owners want them to do it.This is JMO.
I agree with you Sharon. It's complex issue, but in most cases I agree. Of course, some breeds are not that agile, so they can never be too fast.... I guess it's about overall expression a dog gives you. I think we all can see the difference - if dog runs around w/ no interest, sniffing, looking around but not caring about the obstacles, then I guess it's safe to assume he's running for his owner, but either doesnt understand what's agility about or doesnt enjoy it. I don't judge, because I imagine it's hard to motivate certain dogs and make them feel confident. If dog runs away from the ring, I'd take a step back and work with the dog on simple tasks so he'd learn to trust me and have fun with me. Agility is only one part of our lives with our dogs, so I'd be either really patient and take it slow or try something different. Some dogs might be better off in obedience, flyball, dogdancing etc.
As for the rescue mix - the first thing to consider is her past. I'd assume that she might have experiened something bad, so she might not feel safe in the new enviroment. The owner should also concentrate on her actual relationship w/ the dog, instead of trying to push her over the obstacles. It's hard to tell what's the best approach since we don't know the dog and its past, though. I'd probably leave the dog out of agility, if I was the owner, but if she insists, I'd keep taking it to the class, but would play around the obstacles, feed treats and make her feel comforable, instead of trying to train any obstacles. It's just part of the cake...... I think owner needs to spend a lot of time playing and building relationship w/ the dog, because agility usually only reflects imperfections of the relationship in bigger scale. That's my experience, anyway.
PS: If owner did all that work and motivation and building confidence and dog still shuts down, then I'd take it for a sign and leave dog alone and give him some peace.
Dogsports are a partnership - both partners should be having an equal amount of fun. Not all dogs are meant to participate in dogsports, and at some point, if a dog is really not enjoying the sport, the handler has to take a good close look at his/her handling skills, ability to motivate, training methods, etc. If the handler has done everything within his/her ability to make it a good/fun experience for the dog, but the dog is still not enjoying the sport, it's not fair to force to dog to participate.
Nicely said.
Both handler AND dog should have fun doing that sport.
I don't know why it is out of the realm of possibility that some dogs just don't enjoy agility. Some dogs don't chase balls, some are social butterflies while others are more reclusive. I know that to us humans the idea of jumping, weaving, teetering etc. with mom or dad looks like a blast but maybe not so much to some dogs. I figure if my dog isn't having a good time being with me while doing something that I percieve as fun, then it's time to change direction and try something else that we might be able to enjoy together.
I agree completely..... I want to say I don't judge anyone who's doing agility w/ slower non-motivated dog, but I personally wouldn't go that route. One of my friends has a small schnauzer and it's obvious he doesn't like running ---> doesn't enjoy agility. He is moving really slow and sniffs around, even stops to pee sometimes. Other than that he's rather confident and when he's out of the ring, you'd say it's pretty normal happy dog. No one judge his owner, but I'd say that's a great example of a dog who only does that for the owner (meat
) and would rather be somewhere else. As you said, there are dogs out there who doesn't see agility as fun activity, but a lot of people won't admit that, because they love that sport themselves.
The only question is - whose fault is that? why dog doesn't like the agility? I sure believe that there are dogs who are not interested in such a sport at all, but the handler is also important. If handler can convince the dog that agility is the best thing in the world then dog will run with joy. And I think that's the magic Susan Garrett and Silvia Trkman both succesfully use in their training. For them and their dogs it's all big party and fun!
I guess it comes down to knowing your dog and being realistic about your training and motivation.
This is also true. Big part of agility success depends on the owner and how well he knows the dog and how well he can train and work with his dog to motivate him etc etc.
You can tell sometimes that some of these dogs REALLY do not want to do agility. If that's the case and you really want to do agility, then find another dog and give the poor thing a rest
ahh, but here is the problem... more often than not it is a handler's problem, not the dog... some people go through the dogs so often looking for the next perfect one...
I agree with both of you, because I've witnessed both scenarios. I've seen dogs who probably really don't care for agility, dogs who have even "bad" body structure and struggle with every jump.... THEN I've seen woman who have had many border collies and none of them is running well, because her training approach is really messed up (her general approach to dogs, too). ANYWAY I think it's still important to admit ourselves that there are dogs who don't like agility, will never excel in agility and maybe shouldn't be forced to do that.
The journal is excellent read although it is real journal with daily entries about training sessions and what happened during.
Is it available for read somewhere?
Can any dog be a good agility dog? Sure, I think so (with the right training).
But I don't think any dog can be an amazing agility dog. I think some dogs are predisposed to enjoying it, possibly more coordinated, athletic, etc...
Also true. The handler is probably major part responsible for success (now not talking about major championships, but personal success when handler and dog both enjoy agility even when it's not at great speed), but some dogs might not enjoy it as Cheryl nicely described or as you mention - some dogs are not
made to be an agility dogs. If I look back into the past, the breeder of my dog was telling me since the beginning to try agility with my dog. She was convinced that he was right dog for this sport and she was right. When I walk him to the ring, his eyes are locked on me and he didn't even care about bitch in heat who was standing next to him, LOL. He's that focused and jumps in excitement when we walk towards the obstacles. If the breeder didn't tell me, maybe I would never even start with agility, because I was getting a dog to be my friend and companion in the first place.
In an ideal world, this would be true...but this is completely taking the dog out of the equation, which is unfair to the dog. Do all dogs enjoy herding? Definitely not. Do they all enjoy obedience? No. So why should we expect them to all enjoy agility just because we think it looks like fun? I'm an extremely positive, enthusiastic trainer, and my dog was still miserable. Reflecting back, pulling her out of agility classes was an excellent decision on my part - when I focused more on our relationship by doing things she enjoyed, such as hiking through the bush, I saw her personality really start to bloom.
If I had continued to force her to do agility, I would have been putting my ego ahead of my dog - and that to me is completely unacceptable.
Agreed. SG is a great trainer and all, but I don't agree that it's all us and we should keep training agility for whatever cost. I like SG and ST, but what you wrote is so true..... just like people have different ideas about what's fun, dogs surely enjoy different things, too. Yes, good trainer may train even stubborn lazy dog to run around agility courses, but it doesn't mean that dog actually enjoys it. He still might be doing that
for the owner. So I'd do the same as you. Instead of forcing agility on my dog, I'd quit wasting our time and do something he really enjoyed.
As for Sharon's rescue mix question - dog shutting down doesn't mean he doesn't enjoy agility at all..... i mean, it depends on a lot of things. but if he never ran at least few obstacles and doesn't have an idea of what is agility about, it'd be hard to tell because you could say dog didn't even give it a try.
To sum it up, I wouldn't dare to make a generalization about somethins so complex. Concrete handler and dog makes all the difference. Though, I agree w/ these who suggested that not all dogs enjoy agility. I don't think it's always owners fault either. Some dogs don't see a point in agility, don't enjoy running around the obstacles etc..... It only makes sense. People are the same.... some enjoy hockey, some volleyball.... some cycling etc. We might play volleyball if our friends persuade us, but it's not something we really like and want to do often.
I need to know why? before I can understand it... my fault, not ST