First AKC Trial & Enzo's Debut!

[labgirl]

So for AKC, in Novice, you (apparently) get marked for refusals, but you just lose points (5 pts each, I believe) and same with coming off the table. You can have those mistakes and still qualify--not sure if there is a minimum score? A dropped bar or missed contact, though, is a fault that CANNOT qualify with. You can have an off course in Standard but NOT in Jumpers and still qualify (again this is just at the Novice level). You can only attempt the weaves 3 times.

Refusals are 5 faults in every comp I have run here. You can still win if every other dog got faults and a slower time than you or was E'd, but in a lot of places you won't get a qualifying score for leagues or progression.

So for instance, Merlin came 3RD twice at DINAS which is a KC show, but with 5 faults each time. So though he got a rosette, he scored no points towards his agility warrant or progression. Equally, at KC you 'win out' of classes, but only with a completely clear run. So someone I was speaking to won his class with 5 faults, but had to stay in Grade 1 rather than automatically progress as he would have done without faults.

Off courses are a tricky one, and usually depend on whether the dog sped past the next obstacle they were supposed to do (5 refusal faults) or if they took another obstacle when returning (eliminated). Cadbury had an off course moment in a Jumping class, but because he did not actually refuse a jump or take a wrong obstacle, he was given a clear round and actually won it.

Weaves you can only attempt 3 times (with 5 faults each time it goes wrong) then, if the dog does not complete them on the 3RD go, its an E.

In USDAA (where we usually compete) you can have any amount of refusals and they are not even marked at the Starters level. However, you can't come off the table or have any off courses and qualify. You can also try the weaves as many times as you want and as long as you complete them, you can qualify.

Every beginners level here counts refusal faults. I think 3 refusals on the same obstacle is an E. We don't have tables here at all anymore, though I think they are still listed in the KC rules. I wish I could take as many goes as I wanted at the weaves without faults! It would take such pressure off me and Merlin, even if it was just in the early grades.

 

[labgirl]

Oh, and except at games classes in UKA where you get a score, everything here is based on time and faults rather than points. Which means if you have a slow but accurate dog you are always praying the other faster dogs make a mistake and get faults

 

[Calliesmom]

In USDAA (where we usually compete) you can have any amount of refusals and they are not even marked at the Starters level. However, you can't come off the table or have any off courses and qualify. You can also try the weaves as many times as you want and as long as you complete them, you can qualify.

I didn't know that USDAA didn't count refusals. guess I should have been running Cran there- except for how few trials are in our area and what his jump height would be there..........

Nadac doesn't have refusals either so he can run around every single jump but the last one (can't skip the last obstacle or it's an NQ) and if he makes time, he qualifies. probably why he's in Open Jumpers in Nadac and still in Novice in AKC. but he can run around the last jump and get it the second time in AKC and qualify.
AKC Time 2 Beat does not count refusals and also only has the teeter and Aframe so Cran has run in that class- you just have to be fast to win......

it can be hard to keep all the rules straight in the different places....

 

[Silaria]

Refusals are 5 faults in every comp I have run here. You can still win if every other dog got faults and a slower time than you or was E'd, but in a lot of places you won't get a qualifying score for leagues or progression.

With so many venues in the US, the rules change between them and, sometimes, it's difficult to keep them straight in your head. (I run/have run in 4 different venues.)

In AKC, since that's what we are mostly discussing here, in Standard Agility and Jumpers with Weaves all the faults are 5 point faults except for a failure to perform, which is an automatic NQ. You can also earn 1 fault point for every second you are over standard course time.

Oh, and except at games classes in UKA where you get a score, everything here is based on time and faults rather than points. Which means if you have a slow but accurate dog you are always praying the other faster dogs make a mistake and get faults

Standard and Jumpers with Weaves are actually scored points with time as a tie breaker. The team starts with 100 points and points are deducted for each fault incurred. Novice and Open (AKC's equivalent of intermediate) class dogs can qualify with 85 points. There are a few additional rules around what types of faults, and how many, are permitted at those levels. Excellent class can qualify with 95 points HOWEVER the faults may only be time faults. Masters class must be run clean.

FAST is a points based game. There are no faults or refusals on the obstacle, you just earn zero points. The exception to that is with the obstacles in the distance challenge part of FAST, you can earn a refusal on any obstacle in the send negating the distance challenge and resulting in an NQ.

 

[Toffee's Mom]

I haven't been on here much, but jumping in to say Ashley yer crazy
hahaha, worrying about Enzo's debut. I think including your trainer nobody else was, heheheheheh

Also your nerves don't show at all, such smooth handling by both of you, I am always in awe to have such caliber agility friends Since I am such a weekend warrior only. Hardly doing any agility at all nowadays, vicariously enjoying your journey lol. I can appreciate how competitive you guys are, it's a super tough field of wonderful agility teams where you live. However your Shelties and you two are definitely holding your own!

Very well done, especially to think Enzo is still a baby green dog His debut must have been a rush and I betcha some competitors stood up and took note! lol

 

[corbinam]

I haven't been on here much, but jumping in to say Ashley yer crazy
hahaha, worrying about Enzo's debut. I think including your trainer nobody else was, heheheheheh

Also your nerves don't show at all, such smooth handling by both of you, I am always in awe to have such caliber agility friends Since I am such a weekend warrior only. Hardly doing any agility at all nowadays, vicariously enjoying your journey lol. I can appreciate how competitive you guys are, it's a super tough field of wonderful agility teams where you live. However your Shelties and you two are definitely holding your own!

Very well done, especially to think Enzo is still a baby green dog His debut must have been a rush and I betcha some competitors stood up and took note! lol

Aww! Thanks for the sweet compliments! And yes--we had some nice things said to us from some seasoned competitors. Hope Enzo can live up to it!

 

[seashel]

Thank you so much for your explanations Ashley and also other contributors - I find this all so interesting to learn. I must say being on here is like belonging to a Sheltie exclusive agility club (Sparrow and Cadbury are of course honorary Shelties!) - it is so exciting to hear how people's training is going and then see debuts, progression and celebrate achievements within our little community. Also to have the opportunity to ask questions and advice - I love it!!

The situation regarding qualifications is similar here too. The KC Grading system predominates, so if you reach a certain level in KC competition this almost always determines which level you compete at in non-KC shows. So if I was to enter UKA shows I would now start at Senior level, although I have never competed under this organisation before. The same goes for FAB (another unaffiliated organisation) where I competed in Newbie at the beginning of the year but my KC wins now put me into Graduate.

Any titles and awards gained with FAB or UKA do not count for KC progression either, so someone could have a UKA Champion and still need to start in the lower Grades at KC shows - which I guess is the same situation as you were in with Lexie.
Over here in the UK, Agility is the only competitive activity that I'm aware of that has a thriving establishment of non-KC organisations putting on shows and having their own separate rules and regulations. I found it very weird to begin with that there was such a variety, because in breed and obedience only fun shows really exist outside of KC control (although I think there may be some break away obedience organisations emerging now).

Thank you too for explaining the 'push off' was handling description. I have a stopped 2o2o Aframe with Epic too but lately I have not been holding this beyond a nano second, but as you say it still allows time for me to get to position whereas the true running contact has no such luxury!

I was particularly interested to read about your use of treats/toys. Epic is like Enzo - highly toy focussed so I also use food where I need brain engagement from him rather than just speed. He can't think properly if I am holding the toy for example on a backwards wrap. The reason for asking was because Angus will play but food is definitely higher value for him. I have been concerned that using food might result in a drop off of drive but your response has reassured me. I will be more than happy if I can get him working like your guys! I guess it's less important what is used to train than how it is used. It was actually the weave training which was giving me the greatest cause for concern as I train the 2x2 method (I think you also used this?) and need that drive out which is best achieved with the thrown toy. I have been industriously been making a combined food/ball for him for just this purpose but when purchasing materials I stumbled across a toy which seems to really excite him...time will tell! (For anyone who is interested it is a 'Sprong' - never seen one before http://http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008PBOICC/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_3/176-8284755-3916308?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_r=1ZMHVGPG9CH1NZ3NPT60&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=1944687702&pf_rd_i=B008PBOJZS

Over here, a dog is considered to refuse if he breaks the plane of the obstacle it was meant to take so spins etc may not be classed as refusals but if he runs in between jumps in a serpentine for example it would be. I think the 3 goes and you're out on weaves is because it adds considerably to the time on course which would be an issue in a class of 100+ dogs and could potentially add an extra hour or two to the duration of the class. I don't know if the other UK organisations have the same restriction though or if this just applies to the KC shows which tend to have bigger entries.
And I am so pleased we don't have the table to contend with!! I'm so impressed with the degree of control needed to call a halt in the middle of a run with a hyped dog. I will add how tremendously impressed I was with your startline waits with Enzo. Fantastic in such a young inexperienced dog! Like Toffee's Mom said - I bet there are going to be people watching out for his next competition - not just all of us here.

 

[MaraAraLara]

Thank you so much for sharing the videos. When I get my pup and he gets a little older I want to start training him to do agility.

 

[labgirl]

The reason for asking was because Angus will play but food is definitely higher value for him. I have been concerned that using food might result in a drop off of drive but your response has reassured me.

Sparrow is 100% food motivated I use a lotus ball that contains a treat, so I can throw it and she gets a reward. Also I have a treat dispenser, not a Manners Minder, a cheaper version, and that is amazing for weaves and contacts. On Tuesday I placed the treat dispenser at the end of a sequence finishing with the seesaw, and got a lovely held contact. Because the treat dispenser doesn't work until I press the button, she can't get the treat and self-reward for releasing early.

 

[corbinam]

Sparrow is 100% food motivated I use a lotus ball that contains a treat, so I can throw it and she gets a reward. Also I have a treat dispenser, not a Manners Minder, a cheaper version, and that is amazing for weaves and contacts. On Tuesday I placed the treat dispenser at the end of a sequence finishing with the seesaw, and got a lovely held contact. Because the treat dispenser doesn't work until I press the button, she can't get the treat and self-reward for releasing early.

We've been using the manners minder to *ahem* refine Enzo's weaves. It's nice because it keeps him driving but doesn't increase his arousal level so he can work a bit better.