Hepatic Encephalopathy???

[corbinam]

Yeah, what I thought....to good to be true....but doesn't it beg a question.....if there was a way to keep that adrenaline going to the brain, couldn't there be some medications that could combat HE using the same sparks?

I think, though, (and I'm no scientist!) that the adrenaline actually masks the pain signals. So you wouldn't want something that just masks the symptoms. In a really simple example, a wolf with a broken leg will attempt to run from a predator--and could potentially even do so fairly quickly. Pain or no pain, the adrenaline takes over. But, the leg is likely ruined beyond repair at this point. As our pets, we wouldn't want to mask that.

 

[Caro]

Yeah, what I thought....to good to be true....but doesn't it beg a question.....if there was a way to keep that adrenaline going to the brain, couldn't there be some medications that could combat HE using the same sparks?

In theory it's a great idea - the sight of a bicycle to chase does far more to dampen Deska's pain than the methadone does. Problem is to get this heightened response, adrenalin pumps blood away from other organs to the heart and muscles while cortisol shuts a lot of other functions down. So at sustained levels these hormones damage the other vital organs. And of course it dampens brain signals so they go and do stupid things that make them worse.

I do wonder if the barking and chasing things is our dogs way of kicking in some of natures pain-killer (adrenalin).

 

[BarbV]

Corbinom/Caro....It does make some sense - what you say about the adrenaline taking over. And then so quickly shutting down.

I don't actually think Bacca is in pain, however. I think more that the brain is sending very weak signals to his muscles to act. Its like his brain and muscles are no longer communicating consistently.

I now have to lift him on my bed and carry him downstairs. I've had to put a baby gate onto my basement stairs because he falls down them otherwise.

Sometimes when he tries to stand, his legs give out and he ends up sprawled on the floor, or skates on his hind legs. He also prefers to eat on a carpeted floor. He has better traction and does have to chase the bowl.

It is so very pathetic to watch this day and day out.

Vet appointment next week is set. More bloodwork and probably Lactulose treatment. And ultimately I may have to give and do home cooked foods or take a chance on the surgery.

No easy answers here.

 

[Emmasmom]

I would also suspect it's the adrenalin that kicks in and tells him to react. It's like our flight or fight - our adrenalin kicks in during stress moments and once the stress over the surge of adrenalin is gone. I am so sorry you are facing this with your boy.

 

[Tagg]

There is few times in my life that I would wish to be wealthy. Hearing about Bacca, seeing Tinsel's inability to enjoy life the way a young dog should - these a some of those few times. Unfortunately, there is a finite amount of money in my wallet so all I can do is the best I can do. I'm sure that Barb understands this. Surgery doesn't come with a guarantee for either of these two dogs so we struggle to give them what we can.

 

[BarbV]

There is few times in my life that I would wish to be wealthy. Hearing about Bacca, seeing Tinsel's inability to enjoy life the way a young dog should - these a some of those few times. Unfortunately, there is a finite amount of money in my wallet so all I can do is the best I can do. I'm sure that Barb understands this. Surgery doesn't come with a guarantee for either of these two dogs so we struggle to give them what we can.

Tagg

So true. Its the hardest decision I've ever had to make to try to treat Bacca medically at a $500 or more per year vs. a $6,000 surgery that may or may not work.

At some point, I know that I will be faced with "the decision". I don't know if that will 1 year or 10 years.....but I know I will have to do it.

The decision can only be made once I've expended all my resources in finding a way to keep him viable.

p.s. I had a customer come to the store today. She is a regular. Her dog has lost 30 lbs over the last 4 months. She tried switching diet. Dog has blood in urine, won't eat, pee's constantly.

She was asking me if she should put her down! She can't afford big vet bills for useless tests. I get that. But.... Aw! Don't put that on me!

We gave her a less expensive vet and told her to do a phone consult. Told her to tell them that she is short on cash . Hopefully the vet can advise her.

Crap, I'm a pet store owner and pretty knowledged, but please don't ask me to make those kind of decisions for you.

I guess, it speaks to the trust that my customers have for me and my staff, but this is too much!

 

[BarbV]

Bacca has a bad day

Don't know what is different, but Bacca spent the entire day pacing in circles. He ate only about 1/2 of his breakfast and none of his supper. He ate fine yesterday and got all his meds. But today was a very bad day.

Thank god we are going to the vet on Wednesday. Lactulose I think is the next step for him.

 

[famous seamus]

Remembering only too well all the fall downs and carry arounds I did with Seamus. Carrying a 30 lb. sheltie up and down stairs was a challenge and a necessary part of what became his life. I always whispered to myself on bad days 'loving hands, loving hands and my boy would get lighter.

Bacca is so lucky to have such a great love of a mother. Once they know that, all things are possible.

Holding good thoughts.

Hugs,
Kate

 

[BarbV]

Remembering only too well all the fall downs and carry arounds I did with Seamus. Carrying a 30 lb. sheltie up and down stairs was a challenge and a necessary part of what became his life. I always whispered to myself on bad days 'loving hands, loving hands and my boy would get lighter.

Bacca is so lucky to have such a great love of a mother. Once they know that, all things are possible.

Holding good thoughts.

Hugs,
Kate

Awww! You nailed it totally! He always seems to want to do what he used to do....but he just can't sometimes. His back legs splay out behind him and often cannot support himself. I often have to lift his body to get his legs underneath him, and then I encourage him to continue on his own. I try not to do TOO much for him.

Today we went for an off leash walk. He did a pretty good job of keeping up, but was still lagging behind. Then I put Indy and Bacca on a coupler leash (first time I ever tried it) And Bacca was able to keep pace with Indy totally

I've come to the conclusion that I just keep having to challenging him, yet protecting him from injury.

 

[Tagg]

Hi Barb:

I get asked all the time about the right time to make the decision. I usually tell them that when they feel that they have done what they can AND the animal is still not able to enjoy it's life with whatever condition it may have, then it is time to say goodbye.
Not everyone can afford to spend gobs of money and still be responsible for their own lives and accompanying bills. What may be reasonable for one person is financial doom for another. I can certainly understand and support those decisions. The ones I have difficulty with are:

He/she is old and blind
He/she's old and deaf
She/he's 10 - what would be the point of spending money on her/him now?
He/she has accidents occasionally.
He/she has bumps on him/her now and I don't like touching him/her anymore.
I can't ____________. It would make me queasy.
The one woman I know gives her animals away when they get to be nearing 9 because she doesn't want to keep them and have to deal with the decision. UGH
The list goes on but I'm sure you get what I mean.

When the time comes for your little guy, and I hope it's a long way off, you will know that you HAVE done everything you could for him just as I know the same for Tinsel. Chin up girl, I'm proud to know you.

Joanne