I'm very sad

Thanks for the explanation on the measuring. We don't have a height disqualification, only an ideal height (14" bitches, 14.5" dogs) and over an inch either side is "highly undesirable". The same "highly undesirable" wording is also given in reference to smooth coated dogs, mis-marked and incorrect movement (pacing, plaiting, rolling or stiff, stilted, up and down). Now while I've never seen a smooth sheltie or one with white patches (in the ring) I've certainly seen dogs standing well over 15.5" and sadly many with faulty movement. So the brush dosn't really apply equally to all faults. Because there is no disqualification for height, shelties are never measured in the show ring. I think some breeds are still weighed (though this is becoming contraversial.)

In the UK at least (I can't speak for Europe) there are exactly the same issues with getting correct sized shelties, but ours probably give an illusion of being shorter as they are finer boned. Personally I think some are too fine.

I really like Diva as for me (used to UK type) she looks just about spot on for substance, I hadn't realised she was only 13.5 ". I really hope young Porter stops growing too as it would be such a shame to have to place him now.

 

I guess I was talking to the perfect mix of the European and North American Shelties would be the penultimate Sheltie.

Euros tend to be fine boned and delicate - more like toy breeds in some respects. North American's tend to be bigger and brawnier; and resemble more their Collie cousins.

When I look at my two dogs, Indy seems to be more of size for Sheltie than Bacca, though Bacca has the better temperment.

Indy is slightly oversize but only by 1/2 to 1 inch, but fine boned as well. He has a good strong coat. Bacca on the other hand, is long and lean. He's my bouncer. Definitely a Sheltie but not the type I'm used to.

Both dogs from Champion stock. So what is right? Too big, and Shelties truly become miniature Collies. Too small or fine-boned and they can't fulfill they calling as herding dogs; and become toy breeds instead.

 

How old is he?

 

Sorry, but I don't know what that means! I'm no breeder so I just go on instinct. I don't even know the terminology. It just seems to me that striking the balance between NA and Euro makes sense.

 

I could have mis-understood, but what I think dr shelli is saying its that the AOAC lines their heads tend to look more like the UK lines are finer boned and where the sables have broader stockier heads...now with that said many AOAC breeders have made headway with bringing in the sables style of head so they are filled out and have more muzzle than those of the past.

 

I've often admired Diva's shoulder

I was interested in your explanation of the 'settle'. I knew it happened but hadn't ever given any thought as to why - but that makes perfect sense!

Barb, personally I agree with you regarding the two ends of the spectrum of sheltie types, minature collies or fine boned toys. Neither is correct. I have seen (mostly pictures) of some truly outstanding shelties which have a blend of European and American breeding (some European and Australian breeders are doing this).