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I'm very sad

Discussion in 'The Sheltie Standard' started by Justicemom, Jun 14, 2011.

  1. tofu pup

    tofu pup Moderator

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    For any breed that has a size disqualification, the judge may, at his or her discretion, ask to measure the dog. (Some breeds have weight limits, and they actually have little scales that can be brought to the ring to weigh dogs that are of questionable size!)

    It happens during the individual exam. The judge goes over the dog, and, if s/he suspects that the dog is over or undersized, the judge asks the steward for the wicket. The judge informs the handler that the dog is going to be measured. The judge measures the wicket to set it, while the handler watches as proof that the wicket is the correct height. The handler is allowed to stack the dog - the judge may not reposition the dog - and the measurement cannot begin until the handler gives the go-ahead. The judge feels for the withers to make sure s/he drops the wicket at the right place.

    Now, the moment of truth! Everyone holds their breath, and the judge sets the wicket onto the dog. If both legs stand on the surface of the table, the dog is in! You might even get some applause from ringside, because a measurement is always a bit of an event.

    If the wicket-legs swing (and I've seen dogs measure out so badly that you can see daylight under the legs from across the ring), the dog is disqualified and excused from the ring. The measure-out goes into the dog's file, and after three DQ measure-outs the dog can no longer be shown. There are ways to "help" a tall dog shrink when he's measured (for heaven's sakes, it's not the time to get him "up" and standing proud on the table! :wink2:) but if the dog is genuinely oversized, there's only so much that handling can do.

    Is the procedure similar in the UK?
     
  2. BarbV

    BarbV Forums Celebrity

    It really does suck trying to breed this breed to size. I understand the reasons for it, but it's just so darned hard for your breeders to get there.

    My only advice to North American breeders....and I'm speaking as a total neophyte here....is that perhaps you all need to import some European blood into the NA lines.....The cross-seas lines do tend towards smaller and smaller boned.
     
  3. tofu pup

    tofu pup Moderator

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    I really think it depends on the family and on what's behind the dogs. Size is not a universal problem; I don't think that we need to import dogs to "fix" the ones we have.

    When we started out breeding, we had a lot of variation in size... some over, some under, often in the same litter! We weren't really breeding within families (we were trying to bring our bitches to the very best dogs - a noble goal, but these weren't the best dogs for our bitches). Size was so frustrating! I have to say, though, that now that we are working on linebreeding within a family, with occasional outcrosses, we are seeing much more consistency in size (and other things, too). Our "family" of dogs is, on the whole, very moderate - and we have entire litters that stay in-size or very close. Part of it is good luck and part of it is just bumping along and learning from experience. I strongly suspect that other breeders have a similar experience.
     
  4. Lightplum

    Lightplum Forums Sage

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    I tried an outcross last breeding and your right, while I got nice the size was not constant...granted it wasnt a way off outcross but an outcross none the less...next breeding is a line breeding...and I better get my girl and in size!:lol:of course thats like winning the sheltie lottery!! :lol:

    I think you are right the people with more on size constancy are using line breeding and they are getting it down fairly well...its still a work in progress and those pesky "large" genes still pop up from time to time, but its less of a variation...say a 16 1/2" dog instead of the 18" or 19" shelties...so progress is being made!
     
  5. Justicemom

    Justicemom Forums Celebrity

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    Diva is only 13.5" She comes from a family of moderate dogs. Ember is her cousin and only 13 1/3 " Her mom is only 13". However, I know that big gene is lurking behind her as there have been big dogs there. Her brother is 17.5" Ember's brother is 16.5. The thing with both those boys is they were huge early on and stopped growing early. Both of them we thought were going to be much bigger.

    The problem is that her bitch line tends to be willowy. Too light bone. I so dislike that. The standard doesn't say shelties must have heavy bone just not light bone. Her pedigree is also fairly open so it is hard to linebreed. Diva was outcrossed herself and got the best of both sides by some miracle. So I am left with trying to find somewhere to go to improve substance and the head quality and keep the working ability and body comformation that is her bitch line's best quality. We linebred the best we could on the traits we liked. But it was old lines. I am really pleased with Porter, I just wish he would stop growing.

    We are going to hold on to him a bit and if he continues to grow I think we will consider placing him.:cry: He lives with Rachel and if I only needed a preformance dog I would have kept Coal. I have some people who might be interested and a good home. I hope it doesn't come to that.
     
  6. Sumac3890

    Sumac3890 Forums Sage

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    I am so sorry that he has grown, from what my breeder says it is a crap shoot with size sometimes and you never know what will happen. Porter stop right now and quit growing.
     
  7. Chris

    Chris Premium Member

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    Beckon! Slump! Good boy! :lol:
     
  8. tofu pup

    tofu pup Moderator

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    Yes! :lol: Hey, I bet he could learn!
     
  9. Lovely

    Lovely Forums Enthusiast

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    Well, at the opposite end of the spectrum, I've got Duncan who grew to over 13" and settled at just below. At the time of the settling, I thought "Crap, he's under-sized" but now I'm quite happy he sets his Flyball jumps at 7" instead of 8" and all because of a whisper of length. Of course, he hunches when he sees the wicket, too, so I have the same "hunker down, buddy" thoughts crossing my mind!

    Good luck with Porter. He is beautiful and would make some beautiful pups.
     
  10. Lahree

    Lahree Forums Enthusiast

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    I wish we lived closer. If you do have to place him (and I am sure hoping you don't!!) I would love to have him. He is so beautiful and so smart and such a good obedience pup.
     

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