Is this a common thing?

Justicemom said:
Being small doesn't nessarrily cause health issues. There can be reasons why a dog is small in a litter of larger dogs such as having a liver shunt for example. You start breeding such a dog to get smaller dogs and then you can have health issues. Dwarfism can occur in our breed so that is another thing to be aware of. I'm am not worried about small dogs as long as they are propotional and livily. I have dogs that 13 and 14 inches still within the standard.

That being said. I don't agree with breeding shelties for anything outside of the standard. That is the hallmark of a poor unethical breeder IMO. Just like people who breed for weird colors. It suggests lack of knowlegde of their breed. Type, temperment, and health are usually secondary thoughts(if thought of at all) to such people who only want something different or unique.
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I completely agree with you Dr. Shelli! I personally believe intentional breeding of ANY breed to make them different from the standard is wrong and unethical. That personal "breeder" isn't even a breeder, just a BYB..

Ok, ok, off my soap box now :biggrin2:
 
Ainsley's mom said:
I wouldn't consider a 13 inch sheltie small as they are within the standard. Occasionally a smaller pup will show up in a well bred litter. Any good breeders that I know of sell that pup as a pet on a strict spay/neuter contract. They don't want it bred as it isn't within the standard. (they do the same with oversized dogs too)

What bothers me is when someone deliberately tries to breed smaller and smaller shelties in an attempt to make them toy sized. Anytime you breed for just one characteristic whether size, color or anything else, you risk getting an unhealthy dog with an iffy temperament.

If someone wants a toy dog, there are already enough nice breeds to choose from. We don't need mini shelties.

Just my opinion.
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I 100% agree with you.

lukabear said:
What's most striking to me is their faces. Some of the smaller ones (and I mean ~10" and bred for that size intentionally) just look off? The idea of a "teacup sheltie" makes me want to cry.
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I've seen shelties, who came from breeders, who specializes in "mini shelties" and I agree. They do seem off. They looked a little different.

My Bailey is 13 1/2 inches. She was only an inch taller than these mini shelties, but you could really see the difference between them. They had such different faces.
 
take4roll10 said:
I've seen shelties, who came from breeders, who specializes in "mini shelties" and I agree. They do seem off. They looked a little different.
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I can tell you exactly what it is. Shelties should have skulls that are flat on top, flat-ish on the sides, with the eyes set a bit obliquely. A lot of small shelties, have rounded skulls. This sets the eyes more forward (some times almost buggy looking), and then add a teeny tiny muzzle to that, and you have a goofy looking sheltie. I can't stand those buggy-eyes. I have seen Aussies with buggy-eyes, and it creeps me out! :eek2:
 
Shelties do look different with size differences. I feel like Duncan's face is more sculpted than Abbie's. In some shots, I see the 'mini' look. And he is 'large' by the standards on that website. The breeder we got him from was not aiming for small but she got both undersized and oversized in the litter! Duncan is definitely the runt. His full brother is 10 lbs larger than him! Well, he is a little overweight but still much bigger.

Mini-ish:
http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy282/the_gallows/Three musketeers/P6010009.jpg
Normal:
http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy282/the_gallows/Three musketeers/P6030011.jpg

Duncan (on the left) and his brother (on the right):
http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy282/the_gallows/Three musketeers/P3200053-1.jpg
 
Sca is huge but I think his build looks great. He is a stocky Sheltie though while some are thinner (but still look right) Of course I have no bias :no:
 
Well, I'm going to play devil's advocate here. And mostly think out loud....

On the one hand, (and the part of me that feels most strongly), anything toy, teacup, mini is evil and plays to the designer dog syndrome (i.e. I need a small puppy that will fit into my cute purple handbag). This is a complete detioration of the breed standard and should be stopped.

That being said, as someone pointed out earlier in the thread, if someone had not started experimenting with collies and mixing them with other breeds, we would not have a Shetland Sheepdog.

I guess the difference with the Sheltie is that it was still being bred to have a purpose as a working dog, and not simply as a decoration.

Even Chihuahua's in their original conformation had a purpose (e.g. as rat chasers, I think). They only lost credibility when silly people got super silly and started breeding teacup chi's. I just want to slap those people around.

So that's where I draw the line.
 
BarbV said:
Well, I'm going to play devil's advocate here. And mostly think out loud....

On the one hand, (and the part of me that feels most strongly), anything toy, teacup, mini is evil and plays to the designer dog syndrome (i.e. I need a small puppy that will fit into my cute purple handbag). This is a complete detioration of the breed standard and should be stopped.

That being said, as someone pointed out earlier in the thread, if someone had not started experimenting with collies and mixing them with other breeds, we would not have a Shetland Sheepdog.

I guess the difference with the Sheltie is that it was still being bred to have a purpose as a working dog, and not simply as a decoration.

Even Chihuahua's in their original conformation had a purpose (e.g. as rat chasers, I think). They only lost credibility when silly people got super silly and started breeding teacup chi's. I just want to slap those people around.

So that's where I draw the line.
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Barb, I get the same feeling. If there's a purpose, that's one thing. I think of what "fashion" did to Collies, those pointy snouts. I thank heaven that Shelties aren't nor have been the "hot" pooch of the moment. I actually pray a Sheltie never wins Westminster -- or that Disney never makes a movie with one.
 
My question is how are the "mini" sheltie breeders keeping them in size?

Shelties are considered a newer breed, so even championship breeders have difficulty producing puppies, who meet the standard height. It is not uncommon to have an undersized, oversized and in size puppy within the same litter. You can mate two 13 inch shelties and still end up with 17 inch tall puppies. The height of the parents do not determine the height of the offspring...

This leads to believe that these mini shelties were at some point bred to papillons or pomeranians or some other toy breed to down size them.

I could be totally wrong and off point, but it's just something that I find odd.
 
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