Lead Outs

[Silaria]

Those with good stays - do you a sit or drop or can your dogs also do a good standing stay? I'm asking because its winter here and Tully wont put her delicate behind on the cold/wet grass. Which would be ok if she did a standing stay, but she inches right up to the first obstacle, which is usually a jump. She can still take a jump that close, but I worry a judge is going to pull us up for crossing the start line with that long sheltie nose.

I actually tend to use a standing stay for Edan. Some days at trials he won't sit for some reason (stress, excitement, don't know really) but rather than fight with him and add to the stress of the environment, I switched to standing stays.

The command I use is "Wait" and I use this both at the start line, on the table, and for all contacts (especially the Teeter which he can fly off of if he's not thinking about it).

As for starting close to the initial jump, I actually start far enough back that he has to take a stride or two before reaching the first obstacle. As long as you start behind the line, you can start as far back as you want. The clock doesn't start til the dog takes the first obstacle. Starting slightly further back should eliminate the fear of accidentally tripping the timer.

 

[Sharon]

I will either use sit stay,or stand stay and akso "wait" is my command till I say go.I can do a decent lead out if the tunnel is the first obstacle.

 

[k9kreationz]

I'm impressed with my little stay breaker. After finally getting to the point where I can turn my back on him, I'd say his stay is solid 98% of the time. I could probably lead-out to wherever, but um, yeah. He's not so good at taking objects in front of him yet. So I typically only go out 2 or 3 depending on the course.

Question for y'all. Do you put your dog in a "sit"? I noticed when I put Koji in a "sit" using the actual command, he breaks it more often than if I push his behind down to make him sit, then give him the "stay" command. So weird. BTW, our sit is supposed to be an automatic sit/stay command. Sadly, I've been doing what works, versus what "should" work.

 

[corbinam]

Those with good stays - do you a sit or drop or can your dogs also do a good standing stay? I'm asking because its winter here and Tully wont put her delicate behind on the cold/wet grass. Which would be ok if she did a standing stay, but she inches right up to the first obstacle, which is usually a jump. She can still take a jump that close, but I worry a judge is going to pull us up for crossing the start line with that long sheltie nose.

Bentley can also do a standing stay. We've actually just started working on it, and it is a bit harder than a sit or down. But, if you proof it just as well as sits/downs, it really shouldn't be any different.

My recommendation for the inching is to not allow it. Inching, to me, is just like breaking a stay. If my dogs move, I correct them, release them, then try again (no treats). We try again and I change my criteria a bit to make them successful.

Interestingly, in listening to some jumping classes, they recommend always doing the same thing with your dog as far as sit/down/stand and when it comes to the distance to the first obstacle. I've never considered it, because Bentley has never had a jumping problem (knock on wood). But, it makes sense. If you always put your dog 2 paces back, it helps them to always stride correctly (it becomes habit to take 2 paces and jump). When you vary it, they are constantly trying to adjust to correctly get over the first jump. It keeps a lot of the fast, excitable dogs from knocking that first bar.

 

[corbinam]

Question for y'all. Do you put your dog in a "sit"? I noticed when I put Koji in a "sit" using the actual command, he breaks it more often than if I push his behind down to make him sit, then give him the "stay" command. So weird. BTW, our sit is supposed to be an automatic sit/stay command. Sadly, I've been doing what works, versus what "should" work.

I usually say "sit" and push Bentley's butt down. I know it's not consistent with what I ask for outside of agility, but it's become our routine. I carry him to the start line as well, rather than having him walk.

In obedience we always learned that "sit" means "sit until I tell you otherwise". However, I never ask for a long stay when I say just "sit". That being said, I think my dogs (well, Bentley at least) is conditioned to not move once I place him in front of an obstacle.

I'm currently working on a running stay, where I place Bentley in a stay, start running, and release AS I run. It's pretty tough. I'm trying it because I need to increase Bentley's speed, but think that some courses work a lot better if you can get at least a bit of a lead out.

 

[Silaria]

Question for y'all. Do you put your dog in a "sit"? I noticed when I put Koji in a "sit" using the actual command, he breaks it more often than if I push his behind down to make him sit, then give him the "stay" command. So weird. BTW, our sit is supposed to be an automatic sit/stay command. Sadly, I've been doing what works, versus what "should" work.

As I mentioned above, I use a stand instead of a sit. Edan's excitement in the ring, especially in practice, made getting the sit difficult and a fight at times. So, on the advice of my instructor, I decided to pick my battle with him and just do the stand stay at the start line. The rules don't say he has to sit or down at the start line so why fight for it when the environment can be stressful enough.

As you said above, do what works vs what "should" work.

Funny enough, this is why "Wait" vs "Stay" has become my universal 'don't move until I say so' command in agility.

Edan has a good stay outside the agility ring. I can put him in a sit or down stay and he will stay put until I come back to him or release him for a reasonable length of time.

The agility ring puts him in a different state of mind - perhaps its the "job" factor of being in a ring. Stay doesn't work as well there. I found that "wait" actually worked better for getting the start line stay, and stay at the contacts, I wanted.

Maybe that's worth a try with Koji?

 

[corbinam]

The agility ring puts him in a different state of mind - perhaps its the "job" factor of being in a ring.

I agree--I think it may be the supercharged ready to go atmosphere? Bentley, as I said, will stay for extended periods of time. He just makes himself comfortable and waits.

That being said, in agility, he does leeeeaaan forward, and puts his weight on his front legs sometimes. I've definitely been able to break him, so it's a different mentality.

As an aside, I use "wait" with Lexi at the start line, too.

 

[Toffee's Mom]

wait works SO much better for me as well... I use it crossing sidewalks, walking off obstacles, etc.. wait.. he's like otay... but it is not as do NOT move strict as a stay...
Even when he is about to chase a truck.. I say wait... it's like he KNOWS he will get a release and he can still focus his Border Collie like stare lol

 

[DogIsMyMantra]

Bel's start line stay is rock solid. It's probably one of the things I've trained best with her.

Since she is my first agility dog I took training really slowly until I could find the right trainers to work with. In the meantime I invested in some DVDs and books, including Susan Garrett's Succes with One Jump DVD. I put her instructions regarding start-line stays into practice and put a LOT of value into the stay position (and still make a point of often returning from a long lead out at practice or run-thrus just to reward the position)

Her position is a sit-stay and generally she doesn't move a muscle. The only exception is if I have wet her down or something and she shakes it off while I'm leading out. Even then though she doesn't really move anywhere.

 

[Lovely]

I actually tend to use a standing stay for Edan. Some days at trials he won't sit for some reason (stress, excitement, don't know really) but rather than fight with him and add to the stress of the environment, I switched to standing stays.

The command I use is "Wait" and I use this both at the start line, on the table, and for all contacts (especially the Teeter which he can fly off of if he's not thinking about it).

As for starting close to the initial jump, I actually start far enough back that he has to take a stride or two before reaching the first obstacle. As long as you start behind the line, you can start as far back as you want. The clock doesn't start til the dog takes the first obstacle. Starting slightly further back should eliminate the fear of accidentally tripping the timer.

Hmm... maybe I shouldn't feel so bad for doing all kinds of Waits for Duncan. I feel like I have to work with what he's giving and sometimes, that means skipping the Sit, but being stringent on the no moving rule. I think I will have to do the full sit when a tunnel is first. Duncan looooooves tunnels now. He even kind of like chutes.

I have noticed that I do not even attempt a lead-out when there is a tire jump. We've only had limited practice, of course, but for some reason, I don't want to even give Duncan the opportunity to go around the tire until I know he is perfect (or close) with it. Is there something that could be at the start that any of you would lessen your lead out for?