Lerwick: 15 months old and still not fully housebroken... Advice?

mcemily

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First of all, I want it to be known that Mike and I assume full responsibility for Lerwick's unreliable potty training... we just don't know exactly where we went wrong. We're doing our best to correct the situation, but since we aren't sure where the breakdown occurred, we'd like some outside opinions on what we're trying to do, and if there are other things we might try.

But first, the situation.

Lerwick will not do #1 in the house. He will, however do #2 in the house... always on the landing in front of the front door. I've thoroughly cleaned the front landing after each occurrence, used enzymatic cleaner, the whole 9 yards, so I don't think he's continuing to go there because it smells from previous accidents.

Either way, it means, of course, that we can't let Lerwick be loose in the house when we're out... but the thing is, it also happens when we are home, but in a different part of the house! As soon as we see the mess, he will try to eat it (even if it has been there for awhile... he won't try to eat it unless/until we've seen it). For awhile we were managing the situation by moving our computers out into the living/dining room so that we could monitor the front landing at all times when we are home (and we'd crate him when we left, of course, and at night he is shut in our bedroom with us)... but I am sick to death of existing in only one room of my house!

I am not sure if he is going there because he needs to go potty ASAP and it is a genuine accident... or if he is going there on purpose for reasons unknown. If it is a genuine accident, I'm very puzzled, because it doesn't seem that he is asking to go outside before this happens (and it's not, like, diarrhea where I would think it just caught him unawares). If he's going there just because... well, I really don't know what to think about that!

What could be happening is that he thinks he IS asking to go out, by scratching at the front door (even though we never, ever use that door to go out to potty), and since we are not in the room, we don't hear it. Now, the thing is, if we are in a different part of the house and he has to pee, he will come find us and bark at us in a very distinctive "hey, i've gotta go" way. It's a short, clipped bark, and he only uses it in that instance. Why he won't come find us to ask to go #2, I have no idea. I hit upon the notion that he might be scratching (but we can't hear him) during our recent trip to the beach, where he would scratch at either the front door (which we never used), or the back door, interchangeably, to ask to go outside. Of course, there it was an entirely open floor plan, so you could see/hear either door at all times, and therefore it wasn't an issue. Not so at home.

Anyway, here is what I'm doing to try to correct the situation. Input and advice is greatly appreciated.

1. At night, instead of having him shut in the bedroom with us, we're containing him to the landing with his crate pad, water dish, and a couple of toys. Last night was the first time we did this. He whined and barked at first, but quieted down soon enough. In the morning, I got up early and checked on him; there was no mess, and he went out and did #2 right away, so I think it is unlikely he went on the landing before I got up and simply ate the evidence, or he wouldn't have to go yet (I also did not smell poo-breath on him :ick and the floor looked impeccably clean.)

2. Whenever we leave the house, instead of crating him in our bedroom as we used to do, we'll confine him to the landing like we are confining him to the landing at night.

3. We are also feeding him on the landing, instead of in his crate.

I am hoping that this will convince him that the front landing is not an acceptable place to eliminate, but is part of his "den," like the rest of the house.

To combat the issue where he seemingly will not seek us out to ask to go outside, I also think that we should get a bell for each door and train him to ring it when he wants out... something that we'll hear if we're in other parts of the house... in case the whole problem is just that he IS asking to go out, by scratching at the door, but we just don't hear it, and he can't hold it any longer.

As a point of general information/reference, we feed our pets at the same time each day, and yes, Lerwick does tend to eliminate at about the same times each day. However, he will not potty on anybody's schedule but his own. This has been the case since day one with him, and if you take him out when he's not "feeling it," he won't go, even if he has gone at that time every day for the last two months. He also likes to ask to go out because he is bored, or because he heard something outside, or whatever, resulting in something of a "the boy who cried wolf" situation, where we never know if he's really gotta go, or if it's just another fake-out trip. Of course, we dare not ignore a request to go outside, or we might find a mess. These fake-outs are the reason we never taught him to ring a potty bell in the first place. The last thing we wanted was to have a bell going off all day and night simply because Lerwick found it amusing. But I don't know what else to do now.
 
Hate to say it, but I think the best and fastest way to fix this problem is to not let Lerwick out of your sight. If you can catch him in the act, make a loud noise and take him out and praise him for finishing outside, that's ideal.

I think all the things that you are doing are good, but I think the best thing to do is to watch him like a hawk.

I remember when we were living in Charleston Bentley thought this one little alcove upstairs was an appropriate place to poop. It was SO frustrating. He would just sneak off and before we knew it he had pooped. Then he would run away, like he knew he wasn't supposed to (and yes, he was probably over a year old). Finally, we put up baby gates and didn't let him out of our sight. I think we caught him and yelled at him once, and took him right out and he got the message.
 
Hate to say it, but I think the best and fastest way to fix this problem is to not let Lerwick out of your sight. If you can catch him in the act, make a loud noise and take him out and praise him for finishing outside, that's ideal.

I think all the things that you are doing are good, but I think the best thing to do is to watch him like a hawk.

I remember when we were living in Charleston Bentley thought this one little alcove upstairs was an appropriate place to poop. It was SO frustrating. He would just sneak off and before we knew it he had pooped. Then he would run away, like he knew he wasn't supposed to (and yes, he was probably over a year old). Finally, we put up baby gates and didn't let him out of our sight. I think we caught him and yelled at him once, and took him right out and he got the message.

Yeah, I have definitely considered confining him to whatever room I'm in at the moment. The problem is, I don't know how to make Lerwick connect cause and effect. Meaning, I don't know how to make it clear the strange new sleeping arrangement is because he is pooping in the house. I'd have the same problem making him understand why he isn't allowed to leave the room I'm in, I think. I guess that's why I'm trying to make him accept the landing as part of his den, because I can't figure out how to make him connect the dots between the other things... but I am counting on the fact that dogs don't like to eliminate in the same place they eat/sleep (and he never soils his crate, so I know this is a safe bet for him), so if I can associate that area with eating and sleeping, I'm hoping that will then make it off-limits for potty uses.

I did catch him in the act once. He was pacing the landing back and forth, back and forth, back and forth... mind you, we were both sitting in the living room (which overlooks the landing) at the time, and he never asked to go out. Didn't whine, didn't scratch any of the doors, nothing. Just wandered down to the landing and started pacing. I'd taken him out several times (to no avail), because it was about that time of night when he usually goes... so when he went down to the landing, I just KNEW he was gonna do it. I just stood at the top of the stairs, waiting. I thought that maybe catching him in the act, stopping the behavior, and taking him outside immediately might drive the message home. So when he squatted, I said "no," took him outside, and he did his business and I praised him like he'd just won the Lotto, and gave him a big jackpot treat.

In fact, every time he pees or poos outside now, he gets a treat immediately after the act. If we go outside and he doesn't go, he doesn't get a treat. We've been doing this hoping to reduce the amount of fake-out trips, and also reinforce the notion that pottying outside is good, pottying inside is bad (nets you no reward). The fake-out trips have decreased, but catching him in the act and redirecting him seems to have had no effect. Now anytime I hear dog nails on the landing (hardwood parquet floor, so a distinctive sound), I drop whatever I'm doing to make sure he isn't being bad. Mike is less likely to do so, so these accidents tend to happen after I've gone to bed.

I guess this is probably a case of needing to train the husband as much as the dog. And any advice there would also be welcome! :lol:
 
Keep him on his leash in the house and wear it around your waist. This is very confining; for everyone.:wink2:But, it works. Sounds like he is going to the door to out and just goes there since he can't get out the door. He will get it- it just has to click. You will help him know where to go !!
 
He was pacing the landing back and forth, back and forth, back and forth... mind you, we were both sitting in the living room (which overlooks the landing) at the time, and he never asked to go out. Didn't whine, didn't scratch any of the doors, nothing. Just wandered down to the landing and started pacing. I'd taken him out several times (to no avail), because it was about that time of night when he usually goes... so when he went down to the landing, I just KNEW he was gonna do it. I just stood at the top of the stairs, waiting. I thought that maybe catching him in the act, stopping the behavior, and taking him outside immediately might drive the message home. So when he squatted, I said "no," took him outside, and he did his business and I praised him like he'd just won the Lotto, and gave him a big jackpot treat.

Forgive me but he does tell you. Right here you said he was pacing back and forth on the landing. You knew you was going to go so his body language told you he had to poop but you let him go inside instead of using that signal to help him be right. Just because it isn't the signal you expect or want doesnt mean it isn't a signal. In my life I have had 6 dogs in my house and only 1 actually went to the door or whined. 3 come to me and stare. 1 starts wandering and 1 does nothing/never until I get up and then starts barking. Every single one of them would/will run to the door if I ask them if they need to go out. Listen to the signals he is giving you no matter how small.

Why he asks to go out to pee and not poop I have no idea but he obviously connect one in his mind but not the other yet. Dogs don't generalize well. Peeing is usually the first need in puppies so is easier to cupture that behavior. ie most dogs pee first than poop. better muscle control and all that.

When you see the behavior you described above, ask him if he needs to go out(this helps connect the dots), run to the door and take him out and go with him until he goes, no playing, no wandering if he fools around put him on leash. Party when he goes and then give freedom indoors. If he doesn't go confine him to a crate or small area where you can watch him and try again in 20-30 minutes until he goes. No freedom in the house unless he has gone poop within the last couple hours. go back to treating him as a baby puppy until you are sure.

BTW the going to other part of the house and trying to eat his stool means he knows going in front of people in the house is bad because people freak out and the presence of stool in the house in front of people is bad because people freak out. Not that what he doing or did is bad in hindsight. The only way "correcting" this behavior will work is if you do not allow him is sneak away and practice the behavior because he now knows that is safe and relieves his needs if no one is watching. A lesson, a dog should never learn but so common when too much freedom is given too early. If the need is there at this point, the behavior will occur if he has the freedom to do so.

Observation, as Ashley said watch him like a hawk, and prevention via confinement and giving him ample opportunity to do the correct thing so it develops into a habit and not correction will fix this.:smile2: .
 
We have a similar problem to yours. Our Pia is now three and can't be trusted 100% no matter what we do. Our greatest successes have been (as Corbinam said) a Baby Gate to block off the favorite upstairs area, an open door to the enclosed back yard (thank God it is summer) and keeping her in the same room as us.

Sorry to let the side down but my attention does sometimes waiver, but my wife is so, so much more conscientious and reliable.......:o

Good luck
 
Yeah, as others have said....its back to puppy 101 for you!

Until you can break the habit, you need to go back to crate training and/or keeping pup in sight all the time.

I don't know how big your landing is, but apparently its big enough.

That's the only way to break it. Remember to bring your dog outside within about 5 minutes of eating and to keep bringing him outside until he poos. And then big hurrays and treats when he does go outside.

It you catch him in the act, pick him and bring him out. When he finishes outside, again hurrays and treats!

Good luck!
 
I have to agree with Dr. Shelli 100%. He told you and you ignored it. He pooped and you gave him heck. It's like me trying to toilet train a child and when the kid starts asking to be taken to the bathroom me ignoring it until it wets or soils it's diaper and then spanking it for doing it. I understand why you thought it might work but it backfired on you.
Keep him in a room that you are in so you can watch him like a hawk. If he does have an accident, clean it up with detergent and water and then spray a solution of vinegar and water on the spot and sop that up to make sure you neutralize the area. If you have carpeting and the stool has sat it will be down to the underpad and floor so make sure you saturate before you sop. Hopefully the colour of the carpet will not lighten - most don't but you might want to test before you need to do it.
You can also use the umbilical method whereby you attach a lead to the dog and your belt. The idea is that the dog is incapable of getting into the position without you knowing it.
When I have to go out I confine to a room with a washable surface. Tinsel had to be crated, the first I have had to do this with but being a mill stud he would lift his leg on anything, never got the chance to poop but would have because he had no idea and had lived a life that dictated it. As he was given the chance to be in the rest of the house we employed baby gates to keep him in sight. He is clean now and occasionally gives a whimper to let me know he needs out but usually he demonstrates his desire by not being able to settle for more than a few minutes. Keep at it, never give up.
 
Noah would go to the door and stand there, not saying anything. I can tell with Natalie when she wants out - she runs like crazy. At night, she paces in the bedroom. If Emma really needs out, she runs around like wild too. Liam will come find me and when he does I know he wants out.

We need to learn the subtle signals that are given us. Pacing is a key one - it usually means something.
 
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