MDR1 and Demodex Treatments

Wow! Until recently Arkansas was one of two states that required you to get annual rabies vaccinations. That law has been in effect since 1945. It is now every three years. :biggrin2:
 
First, what does neutering have to do with demodex? I see hormones are a problem in girls, but not boys so much, maybe Dr. Shelli can come up with something logical. And why would you (the vet) put a dog through surgery who is obviously already having issues?

So let me tell you about my epiphany, and why I will probably write into my puppy contracts about multiple vaccines being given at the same time voiding all warranties.

Last year, we had a guy at work who got hospital-MRSA. They let him back to work (against my protests) while he still had an open wound, and was still on a pic line. So life is good for a few months, he has to have his surgery done again, because MRSA has gotten into the appliance they installed, but life goes on.

So about three months later, I get a head cold. It was a decent one. Within 12 hours of not being able to breathe, I get these strange lesions on my chin. I put some tea tree oil on them and move on. The next day, they are nasty and oozing. ****. Since I had lost my primary care doctor, I went to the closest clinic. The doctor there was wonderful, took one look and said, "oh, that's a staph infection, and since 80-90% of staph infections are resistant, I'm going to call that MRSA." "oh, you have a co-worker who had an active infection? yeah, it's most likely MRSA." $86 per PILL antibiotics later (I am insured, but the total came to $1751 that insurance paid), I have a lovely scar on my chin that has no feeling for about the size of a quarter around it.

So what was my epiphany? An immune system can only do so many things at one time. My body was probably happily keeping that MRSA at bay, but once the head cold came, it had that to deal with too and let the MRSA get out of control. I suspect the dogs have the same setup. If they have an existing problem, that problem needs to be cleared up before bombarding the system with vaccines. Even the vaccine manufacturers say to only give to "healthy" dogs.

It's too bad we can't make the states understand that Rabies is probably good for life, and to allow titers in lieu of multiple Rabies vaccines.
 
Smudge said:
Wow! Until recently Arkansas was one of two states that required you to get annual rabies vaccinations. That law has been in effect since 1945. It is now every three years. :biggrin2:
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Actually you are correct and not correct. The length of time the vaccine is good for is based on the type of vaccine the veterinarian uses. SO if they have a 1yr vaccine it is good for 1 yr and if they have a 3yr vaccine is is good for 3yrs.
In the handbook you can find the length of time the vaccine is good for. SO be sure your vet has a 3yr vaccine. Unfortunately no medical exemptions for your state. I don't know who the last hold out state is for annual vaccination.


Here is the current law for Arkansas.
4. ARKANSAS RABIES LAWS (NO medical exemption) http://www.healthy.arkansas.gov/aboutADH/RulesRegs/RabiesRule.pdf
SECTION II. VACCINATION
A. Initial Vaccination: The owner of every dog or cat four (4) months of age or older shall have the animal vaccinated against rabies. ......

B. Revaccination: The owner of every dog or cat shall have the animal revaccinated during the twelfth (12) month after initial vaccination. Thereafter, the interval between revaccinations should conform to the Compendium of Animal Rabies and Control, 2008, Part III: Rabies Vaccines Licensed and Marketed in the U.S., published by the Naitonal Association of State Public Health Veterinarians, Inc. (Appendix A)
 
ClantyreSheltie said:
First, what does neutering have to do with demodex? I see hormones are a problem in girls, but not boys so much, maybe Dr. Shelli can come up with something logical. And why would you (the vet) put a dog through surgery who is obviously already having issues?
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First of all, I seriously hope you got workman's comp for what happened to you. Right before I got Smudge I sliced my finger open BAD. I had to have seven stitches on my right index finger. They told me I had to come back to work or else. So since I could not drive (the last thing I need is for a deer to run out in front of me while my right hand is injured) my mom had to drive me to work. After 10 days I went to go get the stitches removed. The fool who put my stitches in tightened them too tight for the nurse to get undone. She had to pick at it with a pair of scissors. My hand was not deadened. People could hear me screaming down the other end of the hall. I got a strip of gauze and was sent to the er. I had sliced my finger wide open on one of the carts we load stuff onto. There was a piece of metal sticking out, and I was the lucky soul who found it. :rolleyes2: I got two days off work, and I had to use some of my vacation pay. Ain't it nice?


As for Smudge, her reasoning was that if I was going to get him neutered anyway (and I was) that we should do it and get it over with. She said the longer her was intact the longer he would become stressed out anytime a female was nearby. So we both decided to go ahead and do it that day. His mange, however, did explode terribly after that. She made several bad calls concerning his mange, but I think neutering him that day was for the best.

If I would have waited until his mange healed and then neutered him later on down the road, there was a possibility he would have had a second round of mange because getting neutered is so stressful.

I don't know. I'm not a vet, and I was terribly upset at the time. Very, very much so. I just wanted him to get better, and she was the one wearing the scrubs. I didn't know anything about it, and she didn't care to explain it to me. I had to go home and google "hereditary mange" it to find out what it even was. Needless to say I have a better, new vet who actually cares about my dogs and explains things to me. My vet also does not stay on his cell phone all the time, and neither does his staff.
 
Justicemom said:
Actually you are correct and not correct. The length of time the vaccine is good for is based on the type of vaccine the veterinarian uses. SO if they have a 1yr vaccine it is good for 1 yr and if they have a 3yr vaccine is is good for 3yrs.
In the handbook you can find the length of time the vaccine is good for. SO be sure your vet has a 3yr vaccine. Unfortunately no medical exemptions for your state. I don't know who the last hold out state is for annual vaccination.
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Really?! :eek2: I did not know that they made two different rabies shots that lasted different amounts of time! Maybe now that all but one state has a three year law they will start only making the three year shot.

Probably not. :lol:


I'm going to have to ask about Fluffy's sometime, too. I bet she only got a one year, but I don't know that.
 
Smudge said:
Really?! :eek2: I did not know that they made two different rabies shots that lasted different amounts of time! Maybe now that all but one state has a three year law they will start only making the three year shot.

Probably not. :lol:


I'm going to have to ask about Fluffy's sometime, too. I bet she only got a one year, but I don't know that.
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Some vets keep the 1yr vaccine to give to pups and the first time vaccinated adults since the booster can only be made good for 1 yr by law. Then the switch to the labeled 3yr vaccine. Some use the 3yr vaccine for everything and make it good for 1yr the first time and 3yrs on the booster.

According to the AVMA website Washington DC is the only place to still require annual vaccination. Alabama did until last year same as Arkansas.

Some states it gets tricky to find. Ohio does require rabies but the length and laws are decided on the county level not state. SD does not have a state law listed but it was 2yrs when I practiced there and what my parents are currently required to vaccine their dog and cat. You need to look at the state board of health and local laws to be sure.
 
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Smudge said:
I am taking Smudge to the vet tomorrow, and I am bringing my MDR1 test kit with me. I have been told that some vets send the test off themselves, and other vets will simply help you swab and want you to send it off yourself.

So I was looking at the site I ordered my test kit from a loooooooooong time ago (just now using it :biggrin2:). I noticed something that struck me as a concern:

What heartworm prevention products can I use if my dog has the MDR1 mutation?

Fortunately, the dose of ivermectin, selamectin, milbemycin and moxidectin in the commercial heartworm preparations are low enough to be used safely even in dogs with the MDR1 mutation. It is only when the drugs are used at high doses, such as those used to treat mange (50 times higher dose than the heartworm prevention dose), that dogs with the mutation will develop neurological toxicity. Attempting to use large animal formulations of these drugs is likely to cause neurological toxicity because it is difficult to accurately measure

m I reading this correctly? My old vet gave me two options to treat Smudge's mange. One was very high doses of Interceptor, and the other was the mange dips. By the way, I would suggest that NOBODY EVER do the mange dips. They are terrible, and if I had it to do all over again I would not have done it that way.

A
However, IF Smudge does indeed carry the MDR1 gene, if his mange comes back, would giving him higher doses of Interceptor cause him to possibly die? :eek2: Is that what that means? The vet did not want to give Smudge ivermectin, but if high doses of Interceptor are just as bad, what would have been the difference?

I'm sure Smudge probably does not have the MDR1 gene, but to be on the safe side, while we wait on the results, I would like to know if anybody knows the answer to this.

Also, how long does it take to get the results from this test back?
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Smudge can you tell me what is the name of the dip you are referring to? My vet and I are trying to get Gypsy's skin issues under control and when her rash heals I am supposed to bath her in Sebozole weekly. I hope this isn't what you are talking about and if so why wouldn't you use it again.
 
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