Omnivore diet thinking lately

Thank you for the link
Celery is a bit tricky an is not okay because if your dog
does not chew celery properly, then it can be harsh
to the dog's digestive system and cause upset stomach with vomiting.

I really wonder if it is healthy
for the dog with all these experiments :confused2:
 
VallejoSheltie said:
Update- Down to 43-44# now, appreciate everyone suggestions and recipes.

Found a local poultry/fish shop and they'll give me 40# leg quarters for $26, which is a heck of a lot cheaper than necks and backs and close to the 80/20 meat/bone ratio.
Felt a little dumb for initally focusing on necks and backs... expecially since I didn't even think of the thyroid still being in there.
I need to get a new standalone freezer to do this right.


I like the 2by recipe, similar to what I'm using now, though I use a lot more celery as it is very low carb and high in fiber. Have also cut out the sweet potato, though I wish I'd followed through with grabbing a bunch of holloween pumpkins.

After dithering on how to best keep the veggies, I'm currently forming them into snowball sized portions and freezing them on a platter, then bagging them in bulk.

Currently giving him a ball in the AM, and then a leg and a ball in PM until I run out of legs. 14 legs for $3.50 seemed like a deal at 0.79/lb.

On the other hand, just read a site about why not to feed chicken as its too high in Omega-6. https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/raw-chicken-dogs-stopped-feeding/

Note- Her comments seem correct regarding available chicken being very high in Omega 6 with store/free-range chicken having 11-15:1 Omega 6/3 ratios.

We do give a couple of Costco fishoil caps every day, however checking now each one is only 250mg EPA/DHA....
Since chicken fat can contain 20% Omega 6, it definately should be removed along with the skin for a combo fat and omega 6 reduction.
Seems like adding turkey which has a much lower 6:3 ratio, along with mackeral/salmon and some beef occasionally is much healthier than primarily chicken based.

Looking at cod liver oil, probably best not since it has additional A/D which he should be getting more than enough from the veggies. To easy to get the fat soluble A/D to high which cause even worse problems.
I'll just stick to additional EPA/DHA.
Click to expand...
I also feed liver, heart (they need the taurine) and any other organ meat I can find (kidney, green tripe etc) they really need the vitamins and minerals they get from the organ meat if your not adding supplements. Technically heart is a muscle so your not really limited in the amount you can feed.
I'll also feed smelts or salmon but I always buy frozen, with fish if it's fresh it must be frozen for a minimum of a few days to kill any organisms that could be in it.
Great job on getting that weight down.
 
Just an update, Boots was down to 42# a week or two ago.
I've got a cheap $35 food processor, so celery/etc is all ground rather fine.

Switched up my routine a bit which may not be cheaper but is a lot more convenient and won't require me to buy an additional freezer for stocking.
1$- US-sourced Stir-fry or Country-style veggies, frozen, 16 0z = 2x 8 oz. (60 cal) serving.
$0.65- Canada-sourced Aldi's Heart & Tail Cat food 5.5 oz = 1x 5.5 oz (150-170 cal) serving
$4- US-Sourced Chicken livers, 2#, just picked it up

Current testing is 8 oz veggies and half can of wet, 2x/day which works out to $1.65/day.
Since veggies are frozen they process pretty fast and there doesn't seem to be as much mess.
Canine's Choice Representatives reception has been fantastic to say the least.

Big plus is this saves a lot of time picking through veggies at the store, and the requirement to process them all within a day or two, and then having to having to meatball them and find freezer space which is currently non-existent.
Downside is that its a $1.65/day, however even the part Scottish-side of myself is currently fine with that since its still a 5 min. job to prep both meals on my morning commute to my SOHO and frankly he's worth it to be getting something that I think could be better than Acana or Origin... might be wrong.
Additionally, he gets 3x Costco Omega-3's (3 x 250mg EPA/DHA) and 1x Costco Glucosamin HCI/MSM (750mg/750mg)

Will go with this for the next month and see.
I will still probably give him a Chicken thigh and leg once or twice a week for calcium and the chewing.
I know I can probably get this down a fair bit with a small freezer and once the farmer's markets open and I can really do 30-40# of veggies at a time which would pay for the freezer after a year or two.
 
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Hate to necro, however I saw the thread and figured someone at some time might be interested in a diet thats higher than normal in veg but not crazy vegetarian. Its only 1 data point, so YMMV.

Recap of Boots:
Age: 11,
Height:~19 - 20" at the withersis
Weight: ~42# with acceptable rib definition.
Recent physical was good, full blood panel was very good.

Diet has normally been a quality kibble like Orijen, Acana, or Taste of the Wild for early and mid-life, with the last several years being primarily frozen veg and raw, cooked or canned meat.
Its is currently somewhere along these line:
Mixed veggies from Aldi's/BJ's ground in a food processor. The work required for that is minimal for the improved digestibility and bio-availability of nutrients.
Various meats either leftovers, or some form of bulk purchase, with regular Aldi's wet cat food with added Taurine.
Taurine may be unnecessary, however since he loves the mostly meat cat food, it can't hurt.
Fish oil (Costco) ~800mg Omega3, OK quality.
Glucosamine/Chondroitin~750mg
Not a lot of bones anymore since he's lost a few more teeth. He should be getting enough calcium...
Milk- An ounce or two to a cup of water. He loves seeing me pour it from the jug into a glass, add filtered water...

He generally gets at least a full cup of veg every day, and another of meat in some form or another, eggs, ...
I will usually give him something meaty if I think my wife has been too stingy in that regard.

From some reading below, I am going to be upping his protein intake a bit to 125% of average adult recommendation due to being elderly in which metabolic efficiency is reduced. Also quality level is going to go up.
Also thinking an egg a day because its a complete protein, and has about the highest bioavailability/utilization of all proteins. The fact that he loves them and they come in a conveniently affordable 12-pack doesn't hurt.
We'll keep on eye on his blood tests.

https://vet.osu.edu/vmc/companion/our-services/nutrition-support-service/basic-calorie-calculator
https://thesciencedog.com/2021/03/23/protein-are-we-feeding-too-much/
https://labdoor.com/review/kirkland-signature-omega-3-fish-oil-concentrate
 
Just found this old thread of mine, and figured I'd update.

Boots is 13.5 now, and aside 2 issues, vet reports lipids, etc are all excellent.

Issue 1 is big slow down in activity after winter last year. After oral cancer surgery for what turned out to be not quite cancer, Rehab vet xray showed hip dysplasia on both hips, and mod. arthritis on a front elbow.
Hyaluronic/steroid injections to both hips in May of 24, and to date he is definately still seemingly pain free. He is on Gabapentin which helps however last visit w/out GP and Dr. was very happy that he didn't not seem to be in pain when she was manipulating him.

Issue 2 is Cushings was diagnosed, and being treated with Trilostane at meal times. All symptoms are gone and panels are right in normal.

We've modified his diet somewhat to:

Each meal is:
1/2-3/4 cup ground broccoli/cauliflower, some carrots and apples though I'm not thrilled with the sugar content...
3-5 oz ground raw chicken with skin/excess fat removed, 15% bones/ligaments/tendons uncooked ground
2 Tsp Salmon Oil ( from Alaska)
1 Scoop of Nature Target Hip + Joint
1/2 Tsp Taurine (studies on life extension and T-Cell fuel)
1 300mg pill Hyaluronic Acid (Joints)
1 100mg Gabapentin
Occasionally I'll grind up 1/2 of a Costco All Organic multi-vitamin if we don't have organ meat. I spent a few nights trying to wrangle vitamin requirements between AAFCO and other sources but finally dropped it as everyone uses different measurement standards. I do know that the ones he's getting are all close to the levels he needs and not overshooting.

Before we started doing this I feared it would be a giant PITA, but its actually kind of fun.
Pick up an 8# frozen veg at BJ's, and 20-25# of chicken quarters for $0.99/#.
Cheap grinder does the frozen veg in 5 minutes.
Scored a $100 grinder at Walmart for $30 IIRC. Assembly line on the kitchen island ripping skin off, pulling most of the meat off the bones, and grind meat and ~15% bones. Mix ground chicken and bone all together and into some freezer bags.
Last time I think we did all of that in a little over an hour with music going and equipment washed up and packed away. clorox bleach wipe deployed.
Meat for at least a couple months, veg for 2-3 weeks.
I know he's probably not getting the same consistent vitamins and nutrients as like from Origen, however with the raw uncooked protein, bones, marrow, some organ meats and occasional vitamin supplement, I don't believe he is lacking.
I am however looking at another go at decypering AAFCO Rec's to a lay-persons level or just getting a good supplement.
Well, that an update, I'll get a pic to add later.
If anyone thinks I'm missing something would be happy to hear.
 
I'm curious about the oral hyaluronic acid. Had not heard of that form. I've just had the HLA injected into my knees to help with my moderate arthritis pain (and it is definitely helping) but had never heard of it as a supplement. I know you research a lot so wonder if you can fill us in?
 
A quick search found this:
https://nutritionj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12937-016-0128-2

It appears that there is uncertainty on how it is entering into the body when taken orally, as polysaccharides are difficult to be utilized. While they are still wondering and this is an older study, the Table https://nutritionj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12937-016-0128-2/tables/1 seems to show what I would consider very nice gains.

Its hard for me to quantify how much the oral supp. is actually helping as he's getting gabapentin, and a hip + joint multi-ingredient supp. But a more recent Canine study seems to indicate it is good though can take a while to become noticable effective like Glucosamine.
https://www.veterinary-practice.com...improves-biomarkers-of-osteoarthritis-in-dogs

You can go on Amazon and find pills, bulk powder, etc. We've been using Nutricost IIRC.

I use DMSO for a few things myself, and as its great for pulling substances through the dermis, I do wonder if a little DMSO topically followed immediately by HA would pull the HA directly into the targeted area.
 
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