Dismiss Notice
Hello Guest, Welcome to the new version of Sheltieforums.com. If you have any questions regarding the new software, please post in the following section: Forum Upgrade

Omnivore diet thinking lately

Discussion in 'BARF, Raw & Natural Diets' started by VallejoSheltie, Apr 9, 2016.

  1. Margi

    Margi Premium Member

    2,776
    9,348
    540
    Nov 2, 2012
    Corona, AZ
    I've been giving my dogs veggies I mix up for 15 years and they all seems to love it. I add it to their raw mix.
    Speaking of raw mixes, I got some Blue Ridge Beef products from a lady out here in AZ but I see they have distributors in NY (as well as many other states). The products seem to be of good quality. While I'm always leery of anything store bought since I can't REALLY know whats in it, not everyone has the time to make their own dog food. At $2.00 lb it wasn't too bad. The selection of meat/bone mixes is quite extensive.
    When Koko got too arthritic to walk much, and Fillion hurt his shoulder, their weight just kept creeping up and up with lack of exercise. I have them down to 5 oz. raw a day, plus cookies to make them on less than 8 oz a day and Fil lost 1.5lb, so its slooowwly coming off.
    I had to remind myself to calculate ideal weight and feed that amount no matter how big a pain in the butt it was for me LOL
     
    Piper's mom, Sharon7 and ghggp like this.
  2. Piper's mom

    Piper's mom Moderator

    8,461
    24,826
    710
    Jun 26, 2015
    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
    I agree that you have to stick to it no matter how sweet they look at you! I'm also finding that convenience isn't very convenient when it comes to pre ground meats! I've been buying a 44 pound ground chicken/bone mix and I really think that's why Piper has kept gaining weight (too much fat). From now on if it doesn't list fat content I'm not buying it, or I'll just grind it myself (bought a meat grinder). Here I've been blaming my mom on giving them too many cookies lol. I need to start varying the meat I feed them, especially now that I can grind it myself.
     
  3. Margi

    Margi Premium Member

    2,776
    9,348
    540
    Nov 2, 2012
    Corona, AZ
    I always pull off skin and fat on chicken the dogs get, but I can see how the fat could just be ground up in there...again its a matter of not knowing whats really in that retail raw.
     
    Piper's mom likes this.
  4. HikerDog

    HikerDog Forums Enthusiast

    122
    267
    85
    Jan 28, 2019
    We've spoken to our vet about grain free and raw diets at considerable length. She doesn't believe that dogs *need* to be grain free and suggested if we wanted to give him a high quality gray free kibble that we supplement some kind of grain so we make him oatmeal.

    We also give him pumpkin which is a vegetable with a lot of great fiber (he got neutered the other day and they told us he might not poop for a few days but has had no interruption in his pooping - which I attribute to the fantastic canned pumpkin)

    Still, we've been giving him 1/2 kibble and 1/2 freeze dried raw food. We don't do this necessarily because we think he should eat only meat but because we like the fact that the meat is human grade and traceable so we know where it's coming from and it's quality (no roadkill, diseased livestock, or anything of that nature)

    Honestly, with the oatmeal, the pumpkin, and everything else he is doing great. So I don't think it's necessary to be totally grain free or veggie free. Even the treats we give him have grains in them. Our vet said it helps them digest all that protein.
     
    Ann and Hanne like this.
  5. Margi

    Margi Premium Member

    2,776
    9,348
    540
    Nov 2, 2012
    Corona, AZ
    When you get into discussions about raw diets (especially with vets) you can get a million different opinions. My beloved Dr. Randy (God rest his soul) was on board with natural feeding, and had participated in two wolf studies--one Mexican grey, one timber.
    Next vet I went to after his passing was so violently against it and had no knowledge of it that I could tell (via questioning her) I went looking for someone else!
    In the end you have to do research and decide what works for your dog.
    My guys get cookies I bake made from oat flour I grind up from oatmeal that has pumpkin in it and other fun stuff. They get dehydrated sweet potato chips I make. And veggies in their mix. And they are doing great. I try to stay away from corn and wheat, but even an occasional Milkbone from a friend won't kill them any more than our indulging in bad snacks now and then will hurt us, IMHO.
     
    HikerDog and Piper's mom like this.
  6. VallejoSheltie

    VallejoSheltie Forums Enthusiast

    191
    27
    60
    Oct 12, 2011
    Wow, lots of comments. Thanks for the references.

    In the past couple months we've dropped Boots weight from ~51 to 46.5.
    Right now he is getting about 1 full cup of ground celery, cukes, cabbage, some carrots, added some sweet potato and bell peper last week.
    He really, really loves the stuff. Not sure of the weight of the cup, its not really compressed at all.
    In addition to that, he probably gets 1/2c kibble a day, not sure how much my wife is giving him in the AM.
    Just found out my butcher sells chicken necks @0.56/lb, and backs and turkey necks.
    Wondering if I should see how much protein he needs a week, and then figure out many necks/backs he needs in addition to the veggies.

    Or, maybe I should put him on raw necks and backs for a month, and cut back the veggies?
     
    Piper's mom likes this.
  7. Piper's mom

    Piper's mom Moderator

    8,461
    24,826
    710
    Jun 26, 2015
    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
    I would avoid feeding JUST necks although backs are ok. There are some who suggest feeding necks (which has the thyroid gland in them) can cause problems over time because of the amount of thyroid hormone they're taking in. It's ok to feed necks, just try to vary the type of bone your feeding (my dogs love chicken feet but they have the skin on so this isn't a treat they have daily).
    I wouldn't cut back the veggies, I feed my dogs a raw mix (low fat) with vegetables in it plus I add more veggies throughout the day (my one boy Piper is also a tad overweight and wants a snack lol). I'd omit the sweet potato though, if your trying to get him to lose weight all the sugar in it will work against that. I try to stick to veggies that are very low carb. I find that if I omit all high carb foods (wheat, oatmeal and high carb and starchy vegetables) I can easily get them to drop the weight. You could also look at a good dehydrated raw (I also feed Smack...very low carb all organic and has meat and bone) in place of the regular kibble your feeding. Kibble is very high in carbs and all carbs convert to sugar and sugar makes them gain weight lol.
     
  8. Margi

    Margi Premium Member

    2,776
    9,348
    540
    Nov 2, 2012
    Corona, AZ
    The easy veggie recipe many raw feeders use here in our Tucson raw feeders group is nicknamed the "2 by" Easy to remember at the store LOL
    2 heads romaine, 2 bunches parsley (or another green if desired), 2 lb of carrots, 2 cukes, 2 zukes, 2 apples. Core the apples, run everything through your food processor till you have a fine ground mince. Mine love it!
     
    Piper's mom likes this.
  9. HikerDog

    HikerDog Forums Enthusiast

    122
    267
    85
    Jan 28, 2019
    We give Toby little snacks of veggies (especially when we pack them for ourselves for a day hike) but we don't usually give them to him with his meal. We've finally switched to a frozen raw diet and the formula we use has kale, carrots, squash, broccoli, apples, cranberries and a few other fruits and veggies in it. I think the ratio is 77% meat, bones, and organs to 23% veggies, fruit, and vitamins.
     
  10. VallejoSheltie

    VallejoSheltie Forums Enthusiast

    191
    27
    60
    Oct 12, 2011
    Update- Down to 43-44# now, appreciate everyone suggestions and recipes.

    Found a local poultry/fish shop and they'll give me 40# leg quarters for $26, which is a heck of a lot cheaper than necks and backs and close to the 80/20 meat/bone ratio.
    Felt a little dumb for initally focusing on necks and backs... expecially since I didn't even think of the thyroid still being in there.
    I need to get a new standalone freezer to do this right.


    I like the 2by recipe, similar to what I'm using now, though I use a lot more celery as it is very low carb and high in fiber. Have also cut out the sweet potato, though I wish I'd followed through with grabbing a bunch of holloween pumpkins.

    After dithering on how to best keep the veggies, I'm currently forming them into snowball sized portions and freezing them on a platter, then bagging them in bulk.

    Currently giving him a ball in the AM, and then a leg and a ball in PM until I run out of legs. 14 legs for $3.50 seemed like a deal at 0.79/lb.

    On the other hand, just read a site about why not to feed chicken as its too high in Omega-6. https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/raw-chicken-dogs-stopped-feeding/

    Note- Her comments seem correct regarding available chicken being very high in Omega 6 with store/free-range chicken having 11-15:1 Omega 6/3 ratios.

    We do give a couple of Costco fishoil caps every day, however checking now each one is only 250mg EPA/DHA....
    Since chicken fat can contain 20% Omega 6, it definately should be removed along with the skin for a combo fat and omega 6 reduction.
    Seems like adding turkey which has a much lower 6:3 ratio, along with mackeral/salmon and some beef occasionally is much healthier than primarily chicken based.

    Looking at cod liver oil, probably best not since it has additional A/D which he should be getting more than enough from the veggies. To easy to get the fat soluble A/D to high which cause even worse problems.
    I'll just stick to additional EPA/DHA.
     
    Piper's mom likes this.

Share This Page