Pedigree Lines question

ClantyreSheltie said:
So Ryan O'Neil is a father/daughter breeding. Then they bred him to his full sister, and got Alfenloch Whirlwind, "Tate" (I think his name was). Tate is the most inbred individual dog I know of in this breed. So if he shows up more than a couple of times in a pedigree, the inbreeding coefficient goes WAY up.

Here is my dog: https://www.pedigreelines.com/dog/pedigree/id/24032

You can see Tate three times in recent lines. Heritage Spirit shows up quite a bit back there. I get between 21 and 28% inbreeding coefficient on my dog, depending on the software.
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so did you just know that about Tate? or are able to find it somewhere?

I did trial matings on your dog's sire with his dam (Inbreeding: 19.08%) and his dam with his sire (Inbreeding: 20.89%) but on your dog's page it's listed as- Inbreeding: 21.18%
so now I am even more confused:confused2:
 
Calliesmom said:
so did you just know that about Tate? or are able to find it somewhere?

I did trial matings on your dog's sire with his dam (Inbreeding: 19.08%) and his dam with his sire (Inbreeding: 20.89%) but on your dog's page it's listed as- Inbreeding: 21.18%
so now I am even more confused:confused2:
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He's in the family, so I've known about him.

As to the math, I can't help you. I know that most software uses Wrights Coefficient of Inbreeding to calculate. I don't actually know the math behind it, it's above my "failed calculus in High School" math ability.

The COI is heavily dependent on how many dogs are actually in the pedigree, with ten or more generations being ideal. I've run 25 generations on my landlords Poodle in the software that does Poodles, and it took it more than an hour at quad-core speeds, the software recommended you run it overnight. Most Standard Poodles run over 40% COI, which is atrocious.

So if one database has a different number of dogs than another, there would be differences in the COI, but this is the same database getting two different results, so I have no explanation. :(
 
ClantyreSheltie said:
He's in the family, so I've known about him.

As to the math, I can't help you. I know that most software uses Wrights Coefficient of Inbreeding to calculate. I don't actually know the math behind it, it's above my "failed calculus in High School" math ability.

The COI is heavily dependent on how many dogs are actually in the pedigree, with ten or more generations being ideal. I've run 25 generations on my landlords Poodle in the software that does Poodles, and it took it more than an hour at quad-core speeds, the software recommended you run it overnight. Most Standard Poodles run over 40% COI, which is atrocious.

So if one database has a different number of dogs than another, there would be differences in the COI, but this is the same database getting two different results, so I have no explanation. :(
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ahhh- in the family:winkgrin:........

well, I am glad that I am not the only one who doesn't get it.....
 
Calliesmom said:
yes- I did do that- but wondered how Clantyre knew that he was so high.
she answered that for me:wink2:
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Also, I was a serious Pedigree geek. I have a database with 16,000+ dogs, with my dogs all the way back to the imports. Since I went to Mac, I've not been able to find another piece of software to handle what I want to do. And I can't get my software license to work on my Windows machine. :(

I have had more than a few "oh ****, it's 2AM I should go to bed" nights playing in pedigrees.
 
ClantyreSheltie said:
Also, I was a serious Pedigree geek. I have a database with 16,000+ dogs, with my dogs all the way back to the imports. Since I went to Mac, I've not been able to find another piece of software to handle what I want to do. And I can't get my software license to work on my Windows machine. :(

I have had more than a few "oh ****, it's 2AM I should go to bed" nights playing in pedigrees.
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well, seems like I'm turning into one:winkgrin:
don't have my own database or software though:pop
 
Sorry, I'm having one of those days where I'm being short with everyone.. co-workers are frustrating me.

Pedigree research is interesting, but frustrating to me. It's made me realize the.. interesting.. decision's my dog's breeder and even the breeder of my dog's dam have made.
 
Jess041 said:
Sorry, I'm having one of those days where I'm being short with everyone.. co-workers are frustrating me.

Pedigree research is interesting, but frustrating to me. It's made me realize the.. interesting.. decision's my dog's breeder and even the breeder of my dog's dam have made.
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it's no biggie here- I had been wondering if there was some search function on the website that pulled that dog out. or sorted on COI or some other thing like that.
co-workers always frustrate me- that's why my breaks are here.......:hugs
I do find the pedigree stuff fascinating but there's still so much I don't know and don't even know which questions to ask..........
 
ClantyreSheltie said:
Also, I was a serious Pedigree geek. I have a database with 16,000+ dogs, with my dogs all the way back to the imports. Since I went to Mac, I've not been able to find another piece of software to handle what I want to do. And I can't get my software license to work on my Windows machine. :(

I have had more than a few "oh ****, it's 2AM I should go to bed" nights playing in pedigrees.
Click to expand...


You can use IBM SPSS to find F-stats including COI, and unless you're running your entire 16,000 subject database, you wouldn't have to let it run overnight. I've run datasets of a few thousand values for f-stats among other things, and it takes a few minutes on my laptop.

The only problem with SPSS is that unless things have changed, full editions are extremely pricey (thousands) - usually you'll only find them at educational or business institutions. I've gotten my limited license through my old stats prof, otherwise I'd be SOL. Well, I suppose the other problem with it is that it will keep you up waaaaay past 2AM. COI? Tip o' the iceberg, my friend.

What format is your database in? Call it scientific curiosity. Or stats geeks-ery. Or whatever. :cool: (And yes, I so totally did use that emoticon.)
 
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