Pet Store Puppies

Barb, I can assure you that my daughter's corgi is not going to end up in a shelter or rescue. Plenty of "registered" dogs do.

I just wanted to point out that while your daughter is responsible and that corgi isn't going anywhere, not everyone that buys a puppy is like your daughter. I see it on Facebook within my own friends and acquaintances. They get a dog (or cat), a couple months, years down the road it's not convenient anymore. That's exactly how I ended up with one of my cats. There would have to be some insane unpredictable circumstances for me to give up any of my pets.
 
I just wanted to point out that while your daughter is responsible and that corgi isn't going anywhere, not everyone that buys a puppy is like your daughter. I see it on Facebook within my own friends and acquaintances. They get a dog (or cat), a couple months, years down the road it's not convenient anymore. That's exactly how I ended up with one of my cats. There would have to be some insane unpredictable circumstances for me to give up any of my pets.

The implication from Barb was that unless you got your pet from a breeder or a rescue group you were going to be an irresponsible owner or there was going to be some issue with the dog not having been properly looked after by the non-registered breeder. While that can happen - it is definitely not always the case. Owners are responsible or not - where the pet came from matters less than going to check out the situation in person. With the exception that people who willingly shell out big $$ for registered animals are perhaps more likely to value their investment good owners can be found even for designer dogs. There are no guarantees in any situation.

PS: Daughter got her cat from the humane society - she's had him about 3 years now and they think he's about 7. Most incredible, affectionate, handsome (black & white, with one green and one blue eye) fellow you could ever imagine. Can't think of why someone would have even considered giving him up. Their loss...
 
I guess I didn't get that from what she said. And maybe we're not talking about the same thing. But this is what I think you're talking about

If they do breed, they aren't puppy mill but they are posted on kiijjiji or similar and got to unqualified homes, and many then end up in rescues or shelters., because they weren't ready. It's not always about puppy mills.

I didn't take from that statement that ALL puppies that are a result of people just wanting to breed their dogs will go to bad homes, but some will. The sad truth is that some people just don't know any better to screen homes and include contracts like a reputable breeder will. Some people won't take back a puppy once the new owner realizes they're in over their head. I hate to admit this, but my parents got their border collie out of the back of a truck on the side of the road on a Saturday morning. If a couple weeks later we decided "whoa.. border collie puppy.. what were we thinking?" Do you think we would find that truck again? Unlikely. We would have tried to rehome her. Thankfully that did not happen.
 
Go look at post # 54 again and the response to me saying that perhaps these people were not acting on a whim and that just maybe they might be responsible....

Here's the part you didn't copy - does it leave a whole lot of room for the idea that perhaps it might be okay for Dr Mac to tell those folks to go ahead? Don't think so.

"Are you kidding me! I see this all the time!! Wouldn't it be cute to breed my dogs?! This is how designer dogs came about. I have countless people coming into my store, knowing nothing about breeding but wanting to consider at least one litter of their so perfect dog. We constantly have to gently leAd them away from this. "

(Bold added)
 
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I have been sitting on my hands until I had the time to read and reply on this thread - as it is a subject which is very close to my heart. Currently in the UK we are anticipating very shortly a debate in Parliament after a phenomenal petition calling for all puppies (and kittens) to be sold only where the mother is present gained over 100,000 signatures. This showed the depth of feeling about the issue over here and there is every chance to hope that a ban on pet shops selling dogs is on the horizon.

There are unfortunately an increasing number of retail pet shops selling puppies but there is a much bigger hidden issue of dealers (often holding a 'pet shop licence') who operate (quite legally) from vans or private premises, many posing as breeders. The situation is so bad that even with a great deal of knowledge, it is almost impossible to look at an advert and know for sure that the person is genuine. Since our 'pet passport' legislation changed to fit in with the rest of Europe, we see hundreds of puppies transported in from the continent, often without sufficient rabies protection - putting our rabies free status at risk. Aside from this the puppies have been bred in abysmal conditions, (here and abroad) removed from the mother far too young and transported hundreds of miles in cramped and unhygienic conditions. No wonder so many of them get sick and die shortly after they are sold. No dog, no owner should have to go this as a result of a legitimate trade.

The unfortunate buyer picks up the financial and emotional consequences while the sellers get to carry on their evil trade with impunity. I don't use this word lightly, it is evil because it traffics in misery. The poor breeding dogs that are treated far worse than farm animals, the puppies that are physically and mentally affected forever by a poor start in life and the owners who have to cope with health and behaviour problems.

We have a huge problem with unwanted dogs (admittedly the puppy farms/mills are not the sole cause of this) so there is clearly a surplus in the supply yet still puppies pour into the towns and cities from rural Wales, Ireland and the continent.
While most rescue centres are brilliant and do sterling work, there are some who are basically dealers operating under the guise of rescue, some are importing dogs illegally without the proper paperwork - again putting others at risk.

Obviously I am speaking from a UK perspective only here but getting a ban on the sale of puppies from pet shops is a no brainer, there are no mitigating arguments. Any 'breeder' who sells through a third party is going to care nothing for the wellbeing or future of the pups aside from the money they bring in. There will be zero investment into these dogs beyond ensuring that enough are alive at 8 weeks to turn a profit and they have to keep costs down and breed like a factory to get that profit.

Education will help but it is not the answer. While there are pet shop puppies for sale, there will be people (knowingly and unknowingly) who will buy them and the vicious cycle continues.

There are certainly problems with BYB (meaning people having one or two litters from their family bitches ). But I would every time go to a BYB over a pet shop/puppy farm puppy because at least the BYB will have probably had the pups in the house, they will be used to people and the mother won't have been bred to exhaustion. I rate their chances far higher than those of a pet shop puppy.

I'm sorry to rant but as someone else said earlier in the thread, owning a dog is not a right, it is a privilege and one that entails a certain amount of expense, patience, travel - basically putting yourself out. Not walking into a shop and getting a pup while you are picking up your groceries.

I live in hope that one day the outdated practice of selling dogs through shops will be banned worldwide, as it is long overdue.
 
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Thanks Julia, that's really interesting. I had heard there was work being done in the UK re pet shop puppies and that explains it really well. I'm surprised the BBC hasn't done a doco on that in the same vein as "pedigree dogs exposed".
 
I just wanted to point out that while your daughter is responsible and that corgi isn't going anywhere, not everyone that buys a puppy is like your daughter. I see it on Facebook within my own friends and acquaintances. They get a dog (or cat), a couple months, years down the road it's not convenient anymore. That's exactly how I ended up with one of my cats. There would have to be some insane unpredictable circumstances for me to give up any of my pets.

Thanks....I didn't get a chance to respond....I work with rescues all the time at my store. It's not always about puppy mills. It's often about dogs sold from BYB that did where not qualified for purchase. And owners were not ready for it. At least with a breeder they normally maintain a relationship and the contract normally stipulates if you have to give up the dog, you inform the breeder first.
 
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There have been a couple of documentaries, one a couple of years ago on one of the main channels about the European imports did cause a bit of a stir amongst 'dog people', but until now it has been the usual story of "isn't that dreadful...moving on.." and nothing very much has been done. There are ongoing calls to ban 'puppy farming' but there is no clear definition of this and in practice, banning certain types of breeding would be near impossible to implement. But if there is no lawful outlet for the puppies bred 'wholesale' then the whole horrible chain would break down and the situation would drastically improve. Those trading illegally would be far more obvious to identify too.

But weirdly, there has historically been more public concern over the way farm animals are treated than dogs destined to become family pets...:confused2:
 
@seashell

I will make an exception on your comment. I adopt out cats in behalf of the oscpa. The difference is that I don't make a profit on the cat sales. But I do make these cats ( never dogs) accessible for adoption. They come neutered, microchipped and vaccinated. We just bring them closer to the community. Does it prompt impulse sales? Yes....but I've really good staff....if they question the motive, they have actually talked away a client.

We get no incentive except to ensure a good home.
 
Barb, a (very) few shops here have started doing this too - and I am all in favour :smile2: Responsibly getting potential owners interested in rescue animals is a great idea and I think probably would give them a much better chance of adoption because some people are put off going to shelters. I disagree that it prompts 'impulse sales' because you are not profiting from the activity and as you point out, the 'wrong' owners are turned down and the cats would be there anyway - they are not being produced especially for sale. This is a world away from selling puppies bred wholesale to anyone with the cash to buy them - where the wellbeing of the animals and suitability of homes isn't even a consideration.
Reminding people that buying a puppy/kitten isn't the only option and encouraging adoption can only be beneficial - both in terms of reducing the numbers of unwanted animals and reducing the market for the puppy/kitten mills.

Keep up the good work, I only wish more stores would do the same thing...
 
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