Puppy delimma

G

gingerpettijohn

Forums Novice
Hi,
My name is Ginger. I just lost my male Sheltie, Tucker, of 12 years a few months ago. I just purchased a Sheltie puppy for the purposes of breeding her. I found out that her Grandfather, Sir Ringo, was also the father of Tucker, the dog I just lost. Her brother, I believed was already intended for another buyer, or I might have purchased him because he is almost identical to Tucker. I found out that Nick her grandfather, who is from Sir Ringo's championship line and Bonnie her mother who is also from a different championship line were bred to get Charlie. Charlie the son of Bonnie was used to father my puppy. After I purchased the female I have been in turmoil because I wanted to get both, but haven't for the following:

I thought that they might accidentally tie when they come of age, which wasn't what I wanted. It would most likely be too young for the mother. I thought that if I did purchase my new puppy's brother, I could possibly stud him out rather than breed him with her. The reasoning for wanting him so much is that Sir Ringo's line doesn't seem to be available any longer, as my seller hasn't been able to find any of his puppies. That was my added impetus to wanting to get the male. I don't think that, I could get Sir Ringo's line again if things didn't work out for the mother. I would have the male and could possibly get another female line and still have his line.

The sellers have had genetic testing done and parents have been free of the typical maladies at least the ones that could be tested for.

I wasn't sure what else I would be in for.

I wasn't sure how difficult it would be to keep them apart either.

I had originally planned to get a male and female and have both parents on site, but don't know if that is the best idea, though it seems a lot of owners have both parents on site. What am I looking at if I have any male and female on site that I want to breed?

What would I be looking at if I had two males on site?

I live in Wasilla, Alaska and thus in the country, but these would be inside most of the time, at least in the winter.

I would appreciate any input. I have owned two different Shelties over the last 20 years and I wanted to take a step up to breeding them. They are an amazing breed.

Sincerely,
Ginger
 
it could be because I have a horrible cold right now, but ive read your post 3 times and im still confused...What is it exactly that you are looking for advice on? Im guessing your not a breeder...May I ask why you would want to become a breeder what are your goals/expectations?! What are you looking to achieve? Just because parents have had testing done does not mean your dog will be clear. There are soo many things to learn before attempting to be a breeder besides looking at a name on paper.
 
There's a lot you have to consider before leaping into breeding dogs. Are you willing to keep entire litters for extended periods of time until you find the right buyers? How structurally sound is the dog in question. You won't know that for quite some time yet. Just because it is related to your previous beloved pet doesn't mean it should be bred. Not everything can be tested for. Have you got a vet close by that can do an emergency C section if needed? You need someone that can mentor you - puppies have a habit of dying if the right conditions are not met. As for buying the male, why would you want a litter mate of the bitch? Being that you are in Alaska I would think you would want either another complementary bloodline of the type you think is correct or a dog that isn't to closely related. There's the whole thing about colour in shelties. Do you know what colour genetics your new bitch has? You don't want to accidently be mating a bitch with merling behind her to a stud with the same. Just look on Pet Finder at the Southern Ontario Rescue to see the damage to the puppies. They are the result of a sable merle bred to what appears to be a sable but alas, she wasn't and 3 of the 5 offspring have vision and hearing problems. Are you willing to keep them? Breeding dogs with integrity is more than putting a stud and a bitch together. It is studying bloodlines, learning everything you can and being prepared to spay or neuter that hopeful that you had because it isn't good enough. You've got 2 - 3 years before that bitch can be bred. Do a lot of homework now and see if you are still wanting to breed by the end of it.
 
I have no head cold, and I'm confused as well. But I think Tagg did a good job of articulating some do's and don'ts.

I reinforce also what Tagg said about getting a mentor. I think it's terrific that you are thinking about getting into breeding, but its not something to be taken lightly.

I'm sure you know but this but there is alot of planning and strategizing involved in breeding, particularly if you are looking at line-breeding.

A mentor can help coach you through the potential pitfalls and what to look out for. Doesn't even have to be someone close by.....

I hope you can be patient for a little bit longer while you figure out how to proceed. Best of luck to you.
 
I'm going to echo the admonition that there is so, so much more to breeding dogs well than putting Fifi and Fido together. Because you love your dogs, and because you love the breed, I know that you want to do right by both - and I think you'll find that this requires a lot of education beforehand. Please do consider seeking a mentor.

You can find a mentor - and a whole lot of information about the breed - by going through your local breed club. Here's a link to the contact information - they're literally down the road from you in Anchorage.
 
Mentors can be in other breeds as well. My mentor in westies was quite a distance from me and that was long before long distance phone plans! You should have seen the pages of phone bills. I was also lucky enough to be able to take a course called Dogs, a Hobby or Profession, which helped me to develop my eye for confirmation and gait. Sadly it is no longer offered. There are lots of books available that can help you. One fellow on this form is showing dogs for his breeder. I learned to groom my Belgians for the ring from a collie breeder as I lived here in Ontario and my breeder lived in Washington State. I'm learning about shelties through this form, from contacts and by joining the rescue group. I have no interest in breeding them but one sheltie does not a breed make and so by listening in on the threads, asking questions as they come up and taking advantage of the experience of others I will be a better caretaker to my little rescue sheltie. We all have to start somewhere and we all have to learn. Just make sure you put your mind to gaining as much info and understanding as you can before you ever take the plunge and breed. You and the breed will be better for it.
 
I took a couple of classes, too -- it really taught me what I do and don't want to do regarding breeding and showing.
 
I have thought about breeding at one time or another, it sounds a nice idea but a good friend here in the UK who breeds, shows and works labradors did a very good, -pull-no-punches- article on breeding and that opened my eyes and made me think I was not a person to breed.

We all like to think of repeating a beloved dog by following the same line, but that doesn't always work, every dog is different and lines will vary.

It sounds to me as though you are missing Tucker dreadfully and want to somehow recreate his presence in your life. Unfortunately, no new dog will be Tucker, they will be their own individual selves and you will grow fond of them too.

The male pup might have looked like Tucker, but he would never have 'been' Tucker and you may have found yourself always comparing his differences, rather than appreciating him for himself.

Enjoy your bitch pup, spend time bonding with her.

As for breeding, everyone has made such valid points. I think the one question someone said to me once that made me think was, "If you breed your dog what benefit will it be to their breed?" ie. has the dog been successful in the show ring, or in a competitive sport so it is a credit to the breed?

Anyway, breeding can be a heart-breaking, exhausting and emotional process. Unless you are really really serious why not just enjoy having your dog and let someone else have all the headaches of puppies? If you need a new puppy fix try becoming friendly with your breeder and see if she will let you be involved in her next breeding?
 
Thanks!

Hi to all!

This forum is great! Thank you all for your input. It helped me out a lot to just articulate my thoughts, although I seemed to have been confusing--sorry. I didn't get the second pup for most of the reasons you all stated and others and decided to just wait a while (at least a year) before adding anthing. I have been thinking about doing this for 20 years, but still have a lot to learn. Your advice of places to go for more info was great and I will take you up on that. Yes, we do have a place that can perform a C-section right close by. We are not technically "in the bush" as the saying goes here.

Thanks again for being such positive support! It makes it easy to ask questions. I wasn't too sure what I would get when I logged in.

I am excited to be getting my new pup soon. My son and daughter are taking care of her before her flight here. They are loving it!

Ginger
 
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