Question on colors

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GeeRome said:
I haven't dealt with the AKC directly, so I'm not exactly sure what they offer for parentage testing. But I do believe they offer some form of parentage testing, either an individual dog or a whole litter. Just provide DNA samples from the suspected sire, dam and pups ... Usually it is just a cheek swab, nothing invasive.

The alleles that produce the color headed white pattern in Shelties produce a very similar phenotype in all the breeds that it is present in. White body, colored head, a couple of colored spots on the body. The lack of pigment on the heads and the "jagged" edges of the pigmented areas on the body indicate to me that they are double merles, not CHW. Of course, only a genetic test would tell for sure.
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Another thing for me to remember! Jagged edges are indicate the double merle! Is that because it's the merling (doubled) lighting the gray into white?

The CHW is a result of white factoring, though, right? (Which I know is different than double merle.) Both parents have to be white factored to produce a CHW, though (based on what you said in a different thraed!)
 
Deb118 said:
Would it help knowing that Moms... mom... was a CHW?
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Nope. That wouldn't explain the sables in there. That would mean that the bitch is probably white factored. Which doesn't explain the sable at all. Or the double merle-which is caused by two merles breeding.
 
Narmowen said:
Another thing for me to remember! Jagged edges are indicate the double merle!
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That is not a cut-and-dry way of telling. Just a pattern I have noticed in observing double merles versus CHWs. CHWs tend to have "regular" shaped pigmented areas, where double merles tend to have jagged edges. Again, not an exact science there, just an observation.

Narmowen said:
The CHW is a result of white factoring, though, right? (Which I know is different than double merle.) Both parents have to be white factored to produce a CHW, though (based on what you said in a different thraed!)
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Yes, CHW is a recessive trait. Two white factored parents are required to produce a CHW pup.
 
Deb118 said:
Would it help knowing that Moms... mom... was a CHW?
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If the granddam was a CHW, then the dam is for sure white factored. She would then pass on the CHW allele ~50% of the time. But in order to produce CHW pups, the sire must also be white factored.

But, the white of the pups does not appear to follow the standard pattern for CHW. So I still think that is unlikely.
 
GeeRome said:
That is not a cut-and-dry way of telling. Just a pattern I have noticed in observing double merles versus CHWs. CHWs tend to have "regular" shaped pigmented areas, where double merles tend to have jagged edges. Again, not an exact science there, just an observation.



Yes, CHW is a recessive trait. Two white factored parents are required to produce a CHW pup.
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But the observation is something for me to keep in mind. Just like looking at the masks is how I can *usually* tell a dark sable from a tri. Definitely helpful.

Okay-so, 1 copy of white factor would *might* show with lots of white-big collar, white legs, white down the stifle, and 2 copies means CHW (which might not be just a normal head, right? It could have much more regular color, right?)
 
she does look to be white factored, but white down the stifle does not always mean they are white factored, although most of the time they are. also lack of white on the stifle doesnt mean they are not white factored. breeding is the ultimite test.
what do you think of this pups coloring all the pups are sable and tri. her markings are something i have seen in border collies but not in a sheltie.

http://www.hillcrestcolliesandshelties.savei.net/cgi-bin/photoalbum/view_photo/1809581
 
JessicaR said:
she does look to be white factored, but white down the stifle does not always mean they are white factored, although most of the time they are. also lack of white on the stifle doesnt mean they are not white factored. breeding is the ultimite test.
what do you think of this pups coloring all the pups are sable and tri. her markings are something i have seen in border collies but not in a sheltie.

http://www.hillcrestcolliesandshelties.savei.net/cgi-bin/photoalbum/view_photo/1809581
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Unfortunately Sadie was spayed so we will never know if she is truly white factored. She does have quite a bit of white though, it not only extends down her legs but continues on her chest right now to her belly.

Sadie had a sister that looks a lot like that pup. She was technically a tri-color but had barely any brown on her and looked more like a bi black. Her head was not half white though. I love the markings on that pup's head, it almost looks like a puzzle. I love that on the white side of her head her ear is black. Very cute :lol:
 
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