Question on colors

[OntarioSheltie]

I'm far from an expert on canine reproduction, but I have read that a litter can have more than one sire if she had encountered more than one dog when she was in heat.

Is it possible she was around other intact dogs when she was in heat, either before or after she bred with Chopper? Did she ever get out around that time?

Thats about the only other explanation I can come up with for a bi blue and black tri to produce a sable pup

Interesting! I knew that this was true for cats but had not heard this applied to dogs as well!

 

[OntarioSheltie]

I'm far from an expert on canine reproduction, but I have read that a litter can have more than one sire if she had encountered more than one dog when she was in heat.

Is it possible she was around other intact dogs when she was in heat, either before or after she bred with Chopper? Did she ever get out around that time?

Thats about the only other explanation I can come up with for a bi blue and black tri to produce a sable pup

Wow! I knew this was true for cats but had no idea that it applied to dogs as well! You learn something new every day!

 

[Narmowen]

Interesting! I knew that this was true for cats but had not heard this applied to dogs as well!

Definitely true!

Geerome-if she does the AKC genetic test, will that verify the parentage for all of the puppies? It should, but I've only done it with one dog and that was years ago.

Also, (another question for Geerome), could the puppies be a variation of a color headed white? (They don't appear it to me, but I'm not entirely sure.) They definitely look like double merles, to me.

 

[Deb118]

*SIGH* I am SO frickin confused! lol I am 100% positive Chopper is the daddy. NO doubt about it. She did not get out of my site. Chopper ran off on me a few years ago, for a few days, and since then, I watch them like a hawk.

 

[Narmowen]

*SIGH* I am SO frickin confused! lol I am 100% positive Chopper is the daddy. NO doubt about it. She did not get out of my site. Chopper ran off on me a few years ago, for a few days, and since then, I watch them like a hawk.

Well, I wouldn't be so sure. A tri color and a bi blue cannot produce a sable puppy. It's physically impossible. A cryptic blue merle and a bi blue cannot produce a sable puppy.

So, something's not adding up at all. You need to get a parentage test done.

 

[BlueBandit]

I'm far from an expert on canine reproduction, but I have read that a litter can have more than one sire if she had encountered more than one dog when she was in heat.

Is it possible she was around other intact dogs when she was in heat, either before or after she bred with Chopper? Did she ever get out around that time?

Thats about the only other explanation I can come up with for a bi blue and black tri to produce a sable pup

Bandit's parents were a Bi blue and tri color
the litter they produced was 1 blue merle and 5 tri colors,

 

[BlueBandit]

*SIGH* I am SO frickin confused! lol I am 100% positive Chopper is the daddy. NO doubt about it. She did not get out of my site. Chopper ran off on me a few years ago, for a few days, and since then, I watch them like a hawk.

and now back to the Maury Show

 

[Narmowen]

Bandit's parents were a Bi blue and tri color
the litter they produced was 1 blue merle and 5 tri colors,

But that's possible. The tri color (which must be bi factored in this case) passes on the tri-gene and the bi gene, while the bi blue passes on the merling gene, which creates the blue merle. Remember-a blue merle is a tri color with the merling gene. A bi blue is a bi black with the merling gene.

So, with that cross (the bi-factored tri color and the bi blue merle), you could get blue merles, bi blues, and tri (regular tri color and bi factored) colors. The merles and the tri color may be bi-factored (1 copy of the bi gene, which wouldn't show.)

A tri color and a bi blue CANNOT produce a sable. At all.

 

[JessicaR]

this really has me stumped the bi-blue could not be the father one of the parents would have to be a sable. just the same as a pure for sable can not produce anything other than sable, a tri and bi can not produce a sable

 

[GeeRome]

Geerome-if she does the AKC genetic test, will that verify the parentage for all of the puppies? It should, but I've only done it with one dog and that was years ago.

Also, (another question for Geerome), could the puppies be a variation of a color headed white? (They don't appear it to me, but I'm not entirely sure.) They definitely look like double merles, to me.

I haven't dealt with the AKC directly, so I'm not exactly sure what they offer for parentage testing. But I do believe they offer some form of parentage testing, either an individual dog or a whole litter. Just provide DNA samples from the suspected sire, dam and pups ... Usually it is just a cheek swab, nothing invasive.

The alleles that produce the color headed white pattern in Shelties produce a very similar phenotype in all the breeds that it is present in. White body, colored head, a couple of colored spots on the body. The lack of pigment on the heads and the "jagged" edges of the pigmented areas on the body indicate to me that they are double merles, not CHW. Of course, only a genetic test would tell for sure.