Reposting- growling behavior

MOZE

Forums Novice
FullSizeRender.jpg Hi there- I am
Posting this again because I posted in the rescue section but really it's a behavior question.

Moses has been with us a month today. He is about 2. 31lbs. The rescue said he was an miniature aussie but he doesn't look like one and the vet said so as well. I think he sort of looks Sheltie like and likely he is a mix of whatever. I was hoping we could benefit from your knowledge even tho he's not 100%. His first health visit all tests looked great. He lets me do anything- handle his ears, mouth, cut nails, brush etc. He is also very malable.

The rescue I got him from is lacking in their information of his past. Ie there's 7 months unaccounted for. He was at a Humane Society in S. VA, Gate City but I've been told it was high kill so there is no way he could have been there for 7 months. I know nothing except for the week when I got him from the foster. To the best of her knowledge he was "shy" (turns out he's really scared and skittish), he was fine in a crate, (is not fine in a crate and yowls and barks), he is fine in a car and he is not. He really should have gone to home with other dogs. When we met him at the fosters home he was having so much fun and taking all cures from her 2 dogs. When I take him to a friends house her two dogs instantly put Moses at ease. In out house he is tentative, worried and sometimes seems really depressed.

Since day one he has been wary of people and just keeps his distance. He still isnt bonded with my husband after a month which is pretty terrible for multiple reasons. He sticks to me.

Onward to this behavior of "shy" dog who chose to just keep his distance when people come in our house (we have kept visitors to a minimum) to now he is staring to do a low growl at people in the house and on leash walks. There's no lunging or snarling but a low growl and a few barks. The worst display was I was laying down with a migraine and my mother who I MUST watch 2 days week bc she has early dementia was over. She walked into the room to see how I was and he ran towards her barking and growling. Thank God nothing occurred.

My question is has anyone had a new rescue who began to develop or maybe backslide? Is this him just gaining some confidence. If you have experienced this what have you done to over come? Unfortunately when he ran after my mother I yelled NO bc I was really shocked. I know the last think i ever want to do is scare him more and also to extinguish his growl which is a good warning to have.

Sorry this is so long. Thank you for any input.
 
Hi Moze, firstly I would like to say how handsome Moses is. Definitely a herding breed in there somewhere, possibly sheltie.

Second, I want to reassure you that what you are experiencing is very common with both a herding dog and a rescue dog. Herding breeds are prone to being naturally aloof towards strangers, this can be exacerbated by a difficult upbringing, such as a lack of socialisation or even worse, rough treatment. As you have no knowledge of his past, you cannot know what has caused this, it might even be inherited from parents who had uncertain temperaments.

I have two people shy dogs, Merlin (in my profile pic) and my spaniel Sparrow. Both had parents who were prone to barking at people when they entered the house, so genetics are at play. I have owned them from 8 weeks and socialised them loads, yet that reserve has always remained. Both dogs have improved and are pretty good at agility shows, in fact they are very friendly, but on walks they like to avoid people and have been known to bark at people who try to be too friendly with them. Sparrow has even growled.

They are not happy with visitors coming around. Merlin will bark, then he will settle and even say hello. But Sparrow hides behind the sofa, growling and barking, a very scared pup. This is despite being introduced to a lot of people. She had a traumatic experience when she was around 15 months, requiring emergency surgery. This has left her nervous of men and strangers in general. She is terrified of being taken from me, she won't even go with the trainer she knows and usually loves to demo an exercise at club.

There are lots of things, however, you can do about this and I have slowly improved Sparrow's confidence around strangers, and Merlin has improved enormously.

Be aware that a month is a very short time in terms of a rescue dog. When my brother took on his rescue greyhound last October, we were told it would take 6-8 months for her to settle, bond with us, and for her true personality to come out. Many rescue dogs have no reason to trust people and, especially with sensitive breeds, this can lead them to prefer avoiding people rather than approaching them. It sounds as though Moses has connected with you and has decided you are very important to him. I suspect there were several aspects to why he growled at your mother - surprise at her sudden appearance, fear, and protectiveness towards you. Rescue dogs often attach themselves to a person very intensely, because they have not had that opportunity before.

Angel, my brother's greyhound, has become very attached to me as I look after her during the day. She even tried to prevent my other dogs getting near me by growling, because I was now of such high value to her.

Actually, give yourself a pat on the back for creating such a bond with Moses! He clearly thinks you are very special!

So, how to deal with this? These are the ways I would deal with it, other people will have other suggestions. I have tried these methods and know they work.

1. Create manageable, safe places for Moses. This might be a playpen or a room you can block off with a stairgate. These need to be 'Moses only' zones, places he can be without anyone, bar yourself, reaching him. Equally, while you are working through the problem, having these safe areas means you can put Moses somewhere when your mother is around and you haven't time to train him.

2. Make your mother's arrival a special, but relaxed occasion. Have her bring him a treat, give it to Moses, then utterly ignore him. She should not try to pat him or make eye contact. Equally, when she enters a room where Moses is, she could try greeting him as she enters and giving him a high value treat, so her arrival is something to be looked forward to, not worried about.

3. Play the Look at That game. I love this one! You can use it for when you are walking Moses and he is worrying about other people. It helps if he is conditioned to understand a clicker, but you could also use a marker word such as 'yes'. It should be different to your praise word. When Moses sees a person and looks at them click or say 'yes' before he has a chance to bark/growl. If he is conditioned to the word/click he should look up to you and you can quickly reward him. He may look back towards the think that is worrying him, that's fine, say 'Look' and then instantly yes/click. Basically, you are teaching him to look at the thing that worries him in a calm fashion and be rewarded for it. Very quickly dogs learn that looking at you is more important than the scary thing. In fact, very often they start to ignore what worries them.

I played this game with Sparrow in our obedience class when she became worried over another dog in the next ring. We had never played the game before, but within 30 seconds she was ignoring the dog and focusing completely on me.

4. Incorporate your mum into training games. Start with the 'look at that' game in your living room with your mum sat on the sofa, not making eye contact with Moses. Gradually bring Moses closer and closer to your mum, so he is right next to her when he is offering the 'look'. Don't worry if he stops bothering to look at your mum, that is a good sign and means he has figured out that she is ok to be next to.

Next I would teach him to target something. I use the lids off Pringles tubes as targets. Rub a bit of treat on the lid and when Moses sniffs it click/yes and reward. You can add a cue like 'nose'. As he improves, move the target closer and closer to your mum, eventually have it in her hand. Ultimately, when he is confident with that, she could have a treat in her hand that he takes.

At that stage you could start seeing if Moses will go to her when she gently calls him. Again no eye contact, but say his name, offer the hand with the treat and let him take it. If he runs straight back to you, that is fine. If he hangs around for more treats, that is awesome. Now you can play recall games where he runs between the two of you, and your mum can start offering him gentle praise. The perfect end result would be if your mum could ask Moses to do a sit when he comes to her and then reward.

She shouldn't try to stroke him until his confidence has grown and when she does it should be by stroking under his chin, rather than on top of his head which many dogs find intimidating.

5. Lastly, if you feel Moses is stressed you could try a herbal calming remedy. I don't know what they sell in other countries, but in the UK there is CSJ Calm Down or Yucalm, both of which are safe herbal treatments. You can also put Bach's Rescue Remedy in the water bowl. And there are things such as Adaptil plug-ins or collars. I have used Calm Down and Yucalm at various times with Sparrow, when there is a stressful time occurring. They seem to help.

All that sounds a lot to do, but you can break it down into 1-2 minute sessions 2-3 times a day. My training sessions at home rarely last more than 5 minutes. You will be amazed at how much dogs can learn in such short sessions and how fast they progress.

With management and patience you will get through this. I remember the first few months with Angel were filled with little episodes. She would growl at the other dogs when they came near her bed (she had never had her own bed before). She would growl/snap at dogs when they approached her in the park. She growled at my dad once when he tried to push her off the sofa (I had words with him about that). And, more recently, my brother had friends round for a birthday BBQ and Angel went and hid in a bedroom. One of his friends insisted on seeing Angel and when he tried to stroke her she growled and snapped. Had I been there I would never have let things get that far.

You can overcome this and help Moses to be a happy, confident dog. He may always be people shy, but that is not a problem. Just don't allow strangers to force themselves on him. Good luck with your gorgeous boy.
 
This is so so helpful. Thank you. I totally forgot about Look At That game and have unearthed my Leslie McDevitt book. I don't know a ton about targeting. I've been able to teach touch- touch my hand, my finger and a telescoping wand but then I am uncertain on how to translate touching getting him to touch other things. I will look for a resource just for targeting. And thank you too about sharing your specific experiences and what has helped in particular. So generous.

I am coming from living with a fear/human aggressive Aussie that we rescued from across the street living perpetually outside- she'd throw food in his pen, he'd snap, she'd hit him in the head and on it went. He was ignored and neglected. I went into that commitment totally unaware of dog behavior. I thought with food, shelter and love he'd learn to trust. WRONG!! Shep had no bit inhibition. He gave no warnings. His biting was predictable in that we knew hands around his face, on his collar, feet near his body etc or any strangers or vets meant a sure attempt at biting and explosive episodes. It was really a traumatic 13 years and we lived a very secluded life. I seem to be stuck in a hypervigilant mind set just like Shep was always in. Through lots of work starting with DR Karen Overall as his behaviorist, lots of online learning, DVDs books etc I got him to the point of being about to groom him and he would trust us etc but he couldn't never be trusted with anyone else. We did our best though not enough and we loved him dearly. He died April 13 this year.

Anyway I give that background bc I know a lot about aggression. Maybe too much so when the growling started I felt I landed in back in hell. But with your encouragement you talked me off the edge! Can't thank you enough.
 
I completely understand Moze. My brother previously owned a border collie and she had some serious bite issues. She wasn't even a rescue, he was given her at 10 weeks but she was utterly unpredictable. It really was awful and when Angel first came and growled at the other dogs my heart sank. But she is not our collie, and most dogs are not that severe.

Sounds like you already have a good idea of where to head, and the experience to work through this situation.

Re Targeting: You can teach it from a hand touch by sticking a post it note to the back of your hand, asking for the dog to touch your hand and of course they touch the post it instead. Then you can start transferring the target elsewhere.
 
Fearfulness comes up often on the forum, have a look through the behaviour section for shy, timid or fearful dog threads. Shelties are a breed that can be fearful. I think a lot of the ideas will help in your situation. Here's a link to some threads http://sheltieforums.com/threads/extremely-fearful-sheltie-puppy.25907/ , http://sheltieforums.com/threads/help-my-4-mo-male-sheltie-is-scared-of-people.19633/, http://www.sheltieforums.com/showthread.php?t=3255&highlight=timid&page=3

A book I found really helpful in dealing with my fearful girl is Help for your Shy Dog: Turning your terrified dog into a terrific pet by Deborah Wood. Lots of examples of Shelties and rescue Shelties.

I found teaching fetch is great for a dog with fear issues. Chasing a ball can lift confidence, as running raises endorphins. When you go into a situation that could be stressful take the ball, get them to focus on it, play a little - and they shift their focus from the thing that's scaring them onto the ball.

How is he on walks? Exercise is confidence building and even if he's only going a few metres he'll be sniffing and familiarising himself with the neighbourhood. If you can find another dog to walk with that will be even better.
 
Caro thanks for your response and all the links. I've not looked through them yet but will. I am feeling very overwhelmed. I wake knowing all things are possible to help this beautiful life and begin to gather loads of helpful information. I now have dozens of useful links, a stack of books and articles and a trainer lined up. I have a hard time prioritizing what needs to be worked on first because it all needs to happen now: stay, come, look at that, targeting, successful car rides (I was told by his foster he was fine in the car he is not), crate (I was told he was crate trained he is not. he was forced to be in a crate bc she had to work), go to mat, socialization with dogs and people, we need to be able to leave the house (he has separation issues) scheduling the trainer, vet visits, etc... and deciphering what method etc.

The most difficult part of the various aspects of Moses's behavior : he has not bonded with my husband Pete.
It has gotten a bit better - meaning he will now go to him for a treat if Pete's arm is stretched out. He will go to him to put on a leash to go for a walk. He won't voluntarily go to him unless coaxed with food or if i go stand behind my husband. Pete fixes his food and he won't go near the bowl unless Pete leaves the room. He won't engage in play with him either. Dogs usually gravitate to and absolutely love my husband. Now there's resentment, disappointment and friction complicating this very important time for training. I've heard of many behavior issues but not bonding with someone is one I have never encountered.


Sadly I guess it speaks to my character that I feel defeated. I disgust myself and wonder if I should return this lovely (and I have fallen in love) baby. It makes me wonder if our last dog ruined me. What if I simply just don't have it to give? After having 5 rescues (two I took off chains myself, no rescue group involved) am I just broken? I tried to be so very careful in choosing this new rescue because life with our last dog who we loved so so much was isolating and very traumatic at times.

I don't mean to whine. I'm just having a bad few days but I must say THANK YOU for your responses. It means the world to reach out for support and then get it. Especially when he may not even have Sheltie I him. Wish the whole world was as generous as the dog people world.
 
The most difficult part of the various aspects of Moses's behavior : he has not bonded with my husband Pete.
It has gotten a bit better - meaning he will now go to him for a treat if Pete's arm is stretched out. He will go to him to put on a leash to go for a walk. He won't voluntarily go to him unless coaxed with food or if i go stand behind my husband. Pete fixes his food and he won't go near the bowl unless Pete leaves the room. He won't engage in play with him either. Dogs usually gravitate to and absolutely love my husband. Now there's resentment, disappointment and friction complicating this very important time for training. I've heard of many behavior issues but not bonding with someone is one I have never encountered.
Bonding takes time, especially when you do not know a dog's past. If he has been hurt or frightened by men that will make him extra wary. Don't force it, just let Moses understand your husband won't hurt him or push him, that is the best way to overcome his fearfulness.

Angel bonded with me and my mum really quickly, but it took longer for her to bond with my brother, which was hard because she was 'his' dog. But she was uncertain of men and needed to know she could trust them. Eight months on, she still looks for me in obedience class for security, but she is getting there. She is even getting bonded to my dad, and that has been a long time.

Do not feel disheartened. I wonder if you are expecting too much too soon? Dogs bond in their own time, and it is far too early to know what the future of Moses' relationship with your husband will be. Give Moses time, work at his pace and then you will see improvements. You are going through a bad patch, you have not failed and you are not broken. I remember going through a similar thing when Angel was first home and she began protecting her bed from Cadbury. I wondered if she was the right dog for us and whether we had made a mistake. I don't ever think that now, she is just a perfect part of the family.
 
Do not feel disheartened. I wonder if you are expecting too much too soon? Dogs bond in their own time, and it is far too early to know what the future of Moses' relationship with your husband will be. Give Moses time, work at his pace and then you will see improvements. You are going through a bad patch, you have not failed and you are not broken. I remember going through a similar thing when Angel was first home and she began protecting her bed from Cadbury. I wondered if she was the right dog for us and whether we had made a mistake. I don't ever think that now, she is just a perfect part of the family.

Thank so much again labgirl! You are so right I am rushing and I needed to hear this. Given the last 13 years with our other dog - all the rules - no one coming to our house - not being able to go on vacation and on and on - everyone is expecting Moses to be plug and play and roll their eyes when I explain why we can't do something. I feel a lot of pressure from the outside and I need to tell them (nicely) to back off. I appreciate the reality check.
 
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