Interesting. I always thought wait meant you were going to call the dog. Stay meant you were going to go back to it.
Learn something new every day. I just use stay for everything.
Schools days for Laddie soon
- Thread starter Laddie's Mom
- Start date
Learn something new every day. I just use stay for everything.
take4roll10
Moderator
Wait & Stay can me different things to different people. For some people it means the same exact thing.
For me, I use wait when I'm going to release my dog and I'm not standing next to her. I also use wait for when I want her to wait for food or going through a door.
I use stay for when I am going to leave her side, either walk away from her or go into another room and don't want her to move until I return to her side.
For me, I use wait when I'm going to release my dog and I'm not standing next to her. I also use wait for when I want her to wait for food or going through a door.
I use stay for when I am going to leave her side, either walk away from her or go into another room and don't want her to move until I return to her side.
Our trainer taught us that stay means do not move from the position I put you in -- sit or down or stand. In other words FREEZE.
Wait means casually do not move from that spot, however, you can shift position as long as you do not move from that spot. Usually this is informal and shorter like wait until I go through the door ahead of you, wait while I am paying at the pet store, wait until I command you or help you into the car, wait while I get my purse and lock the car.
Wait is location. Stay is postion (and hence location obviously as you cannot stay in motion).
Wait means casually do not move from that spot, however, you can shift position as long as you do not move from that spot. Usually this is informal and shorter like wait until I go through the door ahead of you, wait while I am paying at the pet store, wait until I command you or help you into the car, wait while I get my purse and lock the car.
Wait is location. Stay is postion (and hence location obviously as you cannot stay in motion).
Laddie's Mom
Forums Enthusiast
*sigh* I am at my wits end. This training is not going well at all. In fact, one of the trainers said he may need a behaviorist. We are in our 5th week now, all the other dogs are acting calm and learning well. Laddie will NOT stop whining, he does it the entire time, will not sit, or relax, and is an embarrassment. While the trainer is trying to talk all the other pups are sitting, he is pulling at the leash, crying loudly, and making a spectacle of himself. I have even had Steve leave so he can not be seen, this not working either.
When we get home, and practice, he is OK, but the minute we leave the driveway, he changes, it is like he has had no training at all. I am really getting discouraged. He may not even pass the class and will have to take it again.
He also will not stop howling and screaming when I go to the store and he is outside in the yard, I have no idea as to how to stop that. It is getting worse.
Of course, I have not been the best either. For some reason, my left knee, and right heel, are hurting so badly, I can no longer take walks or work on his studies, so, that is a big bummer right there.
On a positive note, he will go down now on command, but will only do it if close to me, he will not do it if he is running and I holler "down" I tried that once, it scared him, and he did not come around me for a couple of days. That is the command they are working on now, and I told them I can not holler at him like that. Geesh. He is OK at the "heel" but again, the minute we leave the yard, it is pull, pull, pull. Our other subject is casual, fun walks without pulling, HA!!!! Forget it, it is pull city. They want us, when they pull, to yank on the leash and turn the opposite direction, this does NOT work with Laddie, he could care less. So, I am still using the harness for walking at home.
Two weeks left, should prove interesting.
When we get home, and practice, he is OK, but the minute we leave the driveway, he changes, it is like he has had no training at all. I am really getting discouraged. He may not even pass the class and will have to take it again.
He also will not stop howling and screaming when I go to the store and he is outside in the yard, I have no idea as to how to stop that. It is getting worse.
Of course, I have not been the best either. For some reason, my left knee, and right heel, are hurting so badly, I can no longer take walks or work on his studies, so, that is a big bummer right there.
On a positive note, he will go down now on command, but will only do it if close to me, he will not do it if he is running and I holler "down" I tried that once, it scared him, and he did not come around me for a couple of days. That is the command they are working on now, and I told them I can not holler at him like that. Geesh. He is OK at the "heel" but again, the minute we leave the yard, it is pull, pull, pull. Our other subject is casual, fun walks without pulling, HA!!!! Forget it, it is pull city. They want us, when they pull, to yank on the leash and turn the opposite direction, this does NOT work with Laddie, he could care less. So, I am still using the harness for walking at home.
Two weeks left, should prove interesting.
Poor both of you 
Sometimes group classes training is just not for everyone. I did most of Bonnies training at home so I could teach what I wanted, how I wanted. I did have a one on one session with a trainer at home which was really great for my confidence and just picking up where I wasn't quite delivering treats or commands in the most effective way. Sometimes it is good to see someone else train your dog to pick up their body langauge and they also don't have the anxiety and stress that us owners build up.
Don't think of a behaviouralist or in home trainer as a bad thing that you have to resort to, plenty of people do it, you'll both be calmer at home anyway.
Not sure what the trainers are teaching but I don't think you need to yell at a dog to command them to do something. A down from a distance is an advanced command so focus on getting the down consistently near you and making it fun. Requests to the dog should be fun and something they are happy to do (ie they're gonna get a hugh chunk of meat). With their hearing a whisper when they are close works just as well as a loud command. A hand signal also works really well combined with the voice command.
Sometimes group classes training is just not for everyone. I did most of Bonnies training at home so I could teach what I wanted, how I wanted. I did have a one on one session with a trainer at home which was really great for my confidence and just picking up where I wasn't quite delivering treats or commands in the most effective way. Sometimes it is good to see someone else train your dog to pick up their body langauge and they also don't have the anxiety and stress that us owners build up.Don't think of a behaviouralist or in home trainer as a bad thing that you have to resort to, plenty of people do it, you'll both be calmer at home anyway.
Not sure what the trainers are teaching but I don't think you need to yell at a dog to command them to do something. A down from a distance is an advanced command so focus on getting the down consistently near you and making it fun. Requests to the dog should be fun and something they are happy to do (ie they're gonna get a hugh chunk of meat). With their hearing a whisper when they are close works just as well as a loud command. A hand signal also works really well combined with the voice command.
Wow. It is so different from our class. Basic is so simple and quiet and so very very positive. Intermediate is more what you are describing in the level of the dogs as well as some of the commands (down from a distance). I wish you could come to CA and spend time with my trainer. The only yelling is cheerleading on the recalls and that is all happy rejoicing.
Did you somehow skip puppy/basic class? Have they advised you on some no pull collar type options and/or techniques to stop that like standing still until the dog is no longer pulling or walking a different direction? I am surprised they are advising a behaviorist without offering more advice first.
Something that really helped Shay was that I pulled a set of Rally instructions off the internet from AKC and on our own we just started learning each card one by one. Since the skills overlapped into class skills it just all meshed. It also was less boring to him as he is a very smart dog and the Rally tasks seemed more purposeful to him.
Sorry about the leg pain. I was doing my classes with a bad knee and totally understand.
Hang in there. Whether you pass or not, the skills are what is important. Learn what you can, take some time, and perhaps go with another trainer (private or group) for additional work with a little bit of age and more practice the lessons and skills they worked on in this class. Next summer I am going to have Shay repeat basic just because I have a friend who is going to have a puppy in class and she wants a friend to go with her.
Did you somehow skip puppy/basic class? Have they advised you on some no pull collar type options and/or techniques to stop that like standing still until the dog is no longer pulling or walking a different direction? I am surprised they are advising a behaviorist without offering more advice first.
Something that really helped Shay was that I pulled a set of Rally instructions off the internet from AKC and on our own we just started learning each card one by one. Since the skills overlapped into class skills it just all meshed. It also was less boring to him as he is a very smart dog and the Rally tasks seemed more purposeful to him.
Sorry about the leg pain. I was doing my classes with a bad knee and totally understand.
Hang in there. Whether you pass or not, the skills are what is important. Learn what you can, take some time, and perhaps go with another trainer (private or group) for additional work with a little bit of age and more practice the lessons and skills they worked on in this class. Next summer I am going to have Shay repeat basic just because I have a friend who is going to have a puppy in class and she wants a friend to go with her.
Laddie's Mom
Forums Enthusiast
Yes, they are beginner classes. I am surprised as well, to me, a lot of what is being taught should be intermediate. They also want us to teach "wait" as we open and go through a gate, how to wait for the food bowl, being quiet while being tied up outside a store, etc.
She said he may need a behaviorist because he is always so hyper. When she is talking to us and our dogs are supposed to be sitting in front of us, or at least be quiet so we can hear her, Laddie is yelping away, turning in circles and pulling, I can not concentrate on what she is saying. I am starting to not enjoy the classes because of this.
They will not let me use a harness, but, I do at home anyway. They did tell us to yank on the lead sharply when the dog pulls and to go the opposite direction, this, however, does not help, Laddie just pulls that way as well.
I feel like I am getting no where with him. Guess this school was a bad idea. I just get so depressed, when I had my first "Lad" I trained him all by myself, and within a month, he would heel, walk next to me on a lead and not pull, come on hand signals, sit on signal, sit in front of me, then with a hand signal, go to the "heel" , stay, stay, and then jump a hurdle when I signaled. It was awesome. I have tried since I got this Laddie to do one task, I get no where. I have no idea what I am doing wrong. Oh well.
She said he may need a behaviorist because he is always so hyper. When she is talking to us and our dogs are supposed to be sitting in front of us, or at least be quiet so we can hear her, Laddie is yelping away, turning in circles and pulling, I can not concentrate on what she is saying. I am starting to not enjoy the classes because of this.
They will not let me use a harness, but, I do at home anyway. They did tell us to yank on the lead sharply when the dog pulls and to go the opposite direction, this, however, does not help, Laddie just pulls that way as well.
I feel like I am getting no where with him. Guess this school was a bad idea. I just get so depressed, when I had my first "Lad" I trained him all by myself, and within a month, he would heel, walk next to me on a lead and not pull, come on hand signals, sit on signal, sit in front of me, then with a hand signal, go to the "heel" , stay, stay, and then jump a hurdle when I signaled. It was awesome. I have tried since I got this Laddie to do one task, I get no where. I have no idea what I am doing wrong. Oh well.
Caro
Moderator
A few things you said I'm a bit worried he may be developing anxiety.
If he's having trouble focusing and vocalising in class it can be due to anxiety. Before class starts, rather than practising, focus on some calming exercises, give him time to get his focus (does he get car sick?), maybe give him a massage, have a slow walk around, let him sniff (helps them get their brain working). Shelties can shut down when there's too much pressure so he might be doing that. Don't worry about whether you'll pass, focus more on learning the training techniques yourself.
With the barking in the yard - that's separation anxiety. He may feel safer being inside when you're out. My male has separation anxiety and I know he's much better staying in the lounge when I'm not home. When you go out give him a Kong or toss some treats inside as you leave - give him something else to focus on rather than that you are going out and let him see that you leaving can be a good thing. It's really hard when you are home all the time with your dog, they do become more reliant. It's interesting too that he's so worried when you leave, it sounds like he has really come to rely on you as his rock.
If he's having trouble focusing and vocalising in class it can be due to anxiety. Before class starts, rather than practising, focus on some calming exercises, give him time to get his focus (does he get car sick?), maybe give him a massage, have a slow walk around, let him sniff (helps them get their brain working). Shelties can shut down when there's too much pressure so he might be doing that. Don't worry about whether you'll pass, focus more on learning the training techniques yourself.
With the barking in the yard - that's separation anxiety. He may feel safer being inside when you're out. My male has separation anxiety and I know he's much better staying in the lounge when I'm not home. When you go out give him a Kong or toss some treats inside as you leave - give him something else to focus on rather than that you are going out and let him see that you leaving can be a good thing. It's really hard when you are home all the time with your dog, they do become more reliant. It's interesting too that he's so worried when you leave, it sounds like he has really come to rely on you as his rock.
susanmccain
Forums Enthusiast
Interesting post Caro. I have always trained my Shelties with the help of an obedience class and have been fortunate not to have any major problems. I understand where you are coming from with this...I sure learned something for future use in case I would experience this.
Laddie's Mom
Forums Enthusiast
No, Laddie does not get car sick. He loves the ride to class, it is a two hour drive to where it is held, and he sleeps or looks out a window, he seems very relaxed. It is when we get to the park where he is trained he acts up. Almost right after we get out of the car and into the park, he starts acting up, he pulls, whimpers, and is very out of control. I am afraid to let him loose, there are so many other dogs there, and I do not trust them, some are huge! No amount of petting will calm him. I do try to walk him around the grounds, but, he pulls and coughs so much, and is so hyper, I give up. Ugh, it is no fun.
He barks in or out when either one of us leave, or, for that matter, anyone leaves. I leave him his favorite toy, favorite treat, and it does not matter, he ignores them and cries away. He still prefers everyone else to me. Gosh, he will even cry if a stranger leaves, and in the classes, he gravitates to others, it is embarrassing.
