Ok after that post I really dont know what to say, I am not trolling to ruffle up someones feelings, as I stated in every comment that I made "for me it has worked" no I'm not saying this is the only way to train a dog Ive just stated how it has worked with my Sheltie. That said , I do love my dog and only want the best for her. I posted this asking others if they had worked with ecollars before with their shelties and I'm getting opinions from everybody telling me why they shouldnt use the ecollar, All I was asking is to talk to people that HAVE used ecollars. I am not trying to start a argument saying this is better or not, no I'm not going there, I had talked to my vet about this and he gave me no reason not to use a ecollar.. I'm sorry If I ruffled a few feathers cause I didnt mean to,,, thanks
You join a site that promotes positive training and then are surprised that you can't find anyone that supports abusive training methods? Really? Again why I can only hope you are here to troll and not serious about this being how you train your dog. Perhaps finding a site that promotes your training methods would help you find someone who would validate your choice. I guess I'm confused. If you are happy with the outcome, why are you so anxious to promote it to people who are clearly not interested. Honestly, I can't imagine going to a site that promotes abusive training methods and preaching about positive training methods. It's just a troll kind of thing to do. People aren't going to validate my choices or change their minds because a stranger comes to their site and tells them they've found the light.
However, getting back to your original points, you keep promoting this training based on the claims that you can't control your dog without hurting her. That is just not true. Many of us have given examples of how positive training accomplishes the same skills while promoting a bond between you and your dog. Our methods lead to the dog wanting to do what you ask because your dog wants to please you. Yours appears to work because the dog is afraid you are going to hurt it. I'm not sure what your purpose is for having a dog, but I can't imagine wanting my dogs to fear me. You keep saying you want what's best for her. How is fearing you best for her? I made a choice to have dogs. I like the companionship. I don't need anyone to fear me. The one thing we can agree on is we need our dogs to behave and be under control, we disagree about how that control can be accomplished and what is "best" for the dog.
First regarding your fear your dog won't be able to hear you for recall, I can't speak for your area, but in my area we have leash laws that require our dogs to be under owner control if off leash. Therefore my dogs shouldn't be far enough away from me that I can't reach them by verbal or non-verbal commands. It's required by law that I provide supervision if they are off leash. In order to avoid annoying my neighbors yelling multiple dog names, mine respond to a simple voice whistle for recall as well as their names for come. Therefore, your claim that you have to shock your dog because there might be a time your dog is out of voice range is ridiculous. Your dog should never be out of voice range in an unsafe situation. That is your responsibility as an owner. If properly trained in a positive manner, your dog isn't going to be taking off as long as you are supervising.
As for your fears that your dog will only respond to treats forever, again that is not true. Yes, Shelties are smart, but they also are pleasers. They will not expect a treat forever, but you do need to treat and praise heavily in the beginning until the skill is a habit. Once the skill becomes a habit, you reduce the treats to praise and eventually you don't even always have to praise the skill. I had a 13 year old that was able to work off leash consistently and required nothing more than praise to thank him for his good work. It didn't happen on the first day when we got him when he was a puppy from rescue, it took training. However, it was worth the effort to have a dog that trusted us and worked with us for 13 years. He behaved because he wanted to please us not because he feared he'd be hurt if he failed to obey. Shelties do best when they keep learning, but I don't keep treating for the skills they learned as puppies. There are plenty of skills I just expect to be done and don't even think to praise anymore.
As for taking off after animals. My dogs will chase animals in our fenced yard, however they don't pursue animals outside of their yard. They've learned where it's OK to chase and where they can't. Imagine that without ever being hurt. Also Shelties are creatures of habit. For instance after storm damage we had to have panels in our fence replaced. It was an all day job and one of our dogs has an issue pottying on leash, so when the workers were on break we went out back with them to let them go. I was concerned they might want to explore the breach in the fence. Instead they wouldn't go near it. They were upset that the yard had changed and they wanted nothing to do with it. They did their business and headed back to the house without us ever needing to use a recall. However, as you might notice we were supervising prepared to make sure they didn't get through the breach using recall if necessary. We didn't leave them alone expecting them to be OK alone. While you may assume the dog is a danger to the kid on the bike, you also have to supervise to make sure the children aren't a danger to the dog. Shelties tend to be a draw and not all kids are good with dogs.
Lots of method might obtain the desired results, but are they humane methods? That is true for children as well.