The Last Straw with Ellie! Rant/vent

[Caro]

I am more likely to believe that while puppies same as people are born with preset traits, some hyper and some laid back, most of behavioral stress/anxiety/ aggression is learned response and not chemical imbalance.
I do understand that sometimes it is very difficult to retrain learned response still it bothers me that meds are meant to treat chemical imbalance when in reality there is probably none so we still not addressing the cause just sugarcoating it. But it might be easier to build good choices once medication starts working and obviously make life easier for everyone involved...

I think that is a very, very dangerous thing to say. It is no different to saying mental illness in people is a put on and does not need medication.

Behaviourists cannot cure everything and neither can training. A good behaviourist should look at the full range of treatments available to owners, including medication.

There is ample evidence that dogs, as well as many other mammals, can and do develop mental health problems. Why is it such a suprise that the most important organ in an animal can have an illness just like the kidney, heart or liver.

 

[Toffee's Mom]

This is really a good discussion. I learned more about this than I thought through you guys and feel more educated and thoughtful than previously.
I get where Caro is coming from, because there is medical causes and terribly unfair stigmas attached to medicating your child or pet!
I can see Sheltie Che's point tho, because I tend to over-obsess about the WHY more than the WHAT where I could just let it go, and focus on reshaping the behaviours or drive myself crazy (short trip, I know)

 

[Lahree]

When I was a sign language interpreter and worked with a second grade class, there was a student there who was totally out of control. He had learned to manipulate and dominate as way of communication. He was wild, angry all the time and distruptive. We were told he only had a few hours of sleep at night. His parents were advised many times to have meds for him. They didn't want that. They didnt think he needed it. Months went on and this student was kicked out of the classroom more days than he attended. Finally his parents agreed to do a herbal alternative for calming--St. John's Wart.

This kid on St. John's Wart was like tuning on a switch. C was able to FOCUS. C payed attention in class. C learned to focus long enough to learn to read. C learned how to communicate other than growling (his favorite manipulative thing--it definitely makes you back off when you see a kid roll his eyes back to the whites only and growl--can we say, "Exorcist?"). C slept at night. C did not acted "doped" at all. C WAS HAPPY! The difference in this kid was the most amazing transformation I have ever seen.

I keep thinking of this when thinking of giving Ellie a herb that could help her to be HAPPY and not be so uptight all the time.

 

[SheltieChe]

I think that is a very, very dangerous thing to say. It is no different to saying mental illness in people is a put on and does not need medication.

Behaviourists cannot cure everything and neither can training. A good behaviourist should look at the full range of treatments available to owners, including medication.

There is ample evidence that dogs, as well as many other mammals, can and do develop mental health problems. Why is it such a suprise that the most important organ in an animal can have an illness just like the kidney, heart or liver.

hmm, when you driving on the road looking for motel and find one that is run down and flea infested... do you spend your time and energy figuring out what is the problem with the place and how it came to be in such deranged state... or you just drive few more miles and find a place which fits your image? Sometimes WHY or HOW makes no difference and it is total waste to spend your time or energy investigating...
SG has a new puppy Swagger 14 weeks? who is terribly afraid of flying birds and airplanes and runs for cover everytime he sees them... is he having anxiety? or developing mental issues? left along he probably might but the thing is he is singleton puppy so while there are lots of dogs around him he never had littermates to learn behavioral concepts with which is well documented for singleton pups...
My take on it- there are TONS of dogs that have this or that reactivity/ insecurity/ phobia/ anxiety and it is far more dangerous road to start looking at it as mental instabilities. I choose to believe that most of those issues is learned response which could be helped by retraining, good food, mental and physical activity and occasional adjustments with herbals, homeopathy, massage, acupuncture, chiro etc.

 

[Phebe*DD]

... I keep thinking of this when thinking of giving Ellie a herb that could help her to be HAPPY and not be so uptight all the time.

Your last post made me think about my rheumatoid arthritis and the fact that medication calms my auto-immune system and makes it possible for me remain active when a few months ago, I was starting to experience severe limitations in physical activity. Sometimes our bodies, for whatever reason, are just out of whack. After all that you've been through with training, retraining, patience beyond what many even on this board would have, I think it's time to explore whether some kind of medication would be helpful to Ellie.

Whatever you do, I know that you will do it with the intent of finding the best solution for your family, Ellie included. You're a great mom to her and I have no doubt that you are the best mom a dog like Ellie could ever have.

 

[Lahree]

Your last post made me think about my rheumatoid arthritis and the fact that medication calms my auto-immune system and makes it possible for me remain active when a few months ago, I was starting to experience severe limitations in physical activity. Sometimes our bodies, for whatever reason, are just out of whack. After all that you've been through with training, retraining, patience beyond what many even on this board would have, I think it's time to explore whether some kind of medication would be helpful to Ellie.

Whatever you do, I know that you will do it with the intent of finding the best solution for your family, Ellie included. You're a great mom to her and I have no doubt that you are the best mom a dog like Ellie could ever have.

Oh, you made me teary. Thank you!

 

[Toffee's Mom]

Your last post made me think about my rheumatoid arthritis and the fact that medication calms my auto-immune system and makes it possible for me remain active when a few months ago, I was starting to experience severe limitations in physical activity. Sometimes our bodies, for whatever reason, are just out of whack. After all that you've been through with training, retraining, patience beyond what many even on this board would have, I think it's time to explore whether some kind of medication would be helpful to Ellie.

Whatever you do, I know that you will do it with the intent of finding the best solution for your family, Ellie included. You're a great mom to her and I have no doubt that you are the best mom a dog like Ellie could ever have.

So very true! I completely agree, Margaret!
Don't you doubt yourself, there was and is never a question on how much you would and will do for Ellie and your family!

 

[K9Renee]

The Last Straw with Ellie!

Hi Lahree,
I have read a lot of the posts, some give good advice, especially consulting your vet for medication. but sometimes in trumatic events, only time will heal, you said yourself how upset you were about what happen to your neighborhood, our dogs pick up so much from us and they express what we are trying to hide from everyone, don't be mad at Ellie give her time, I have a six year old girl that freaks out at noises, and spins and barks at everything, thunderstorms, cars, trucks you name it. I was a my wits end with her and like you would of given her to the first person who want the nut case. I found a simple solution which has restored most of the peace in my house. I found on line a Thundershirt, it really helps her, she is much calmer and a lot of stuff doesn't bother her as before, it not a 100% but much easier to live with her now, and I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't hear from other people who used it, my sister brought one for her 90 lb mix and the moment he knows a storm is coming he drags her to where she keeps his shirt and makes her put it on him. So she is happy he longer tears the house up. I hope you find a solution for your Ellie and your family.
Good Luck
K9Renee,
Fort Myers, FL.

 

[dblock]

Lahree

My Baby Beau is on a doggie style prozac medicine called fluoxetine 10mg. You have to get it from your vet

 

[Diana]

This kid on St. John's Wart was like tuning on a switch. C was able to FOCUS. C payed attention in class. C learned to focus long enough to learn to read. C learned how to communicate other than growling (his favorite manipulative thing--it definitely makes you back off when you see a kid roll his eyes back to the whites only and growl--can we say, "Exorcist?"). C slept at night. C did not acted "doped" at all. C WAS HAPPY! The difference in this kid was the most amazing transformation I have ever seen.

My husband is a teacher and since he works with elementary school kids he sees this a lot. It's at the point now where he sometimes identifies kids who have special needs and refers them to the counselor (he worked in a special needs classroom for two years). He says the difference before and after meds is like night and day. Some kids never get the meds they need and are forever being yelled at in class because of it. Other kids you can definitely tell when they skip a day.

I'm not saying that most kids need meds. Just that for some it really, truly does make a difference in quality of life.