The Last Straw with Ellie! Rant/vent

sable said:
I agree with Chris on this one. As I have posted this before, my sister has a Lahsa, and he is a biter. I tried to help her out, and spoke with a breeder of Lahsas, and she stated to me she would grab them by the ruff and say NO.

My sister had three trainers, the first two came once each and quit. The last one did a good job, but my sister still has to be on her toes with this dog.
I also told my sister not to take her Lahsa to my vet, because mine would put her dog down. #1 they are not fond of this breed because of this reason.
They are basically a one person dog. He is her dog, and I told her she has to show who is the leader. He loves to bite my BIL for no reason, but he does it often.

BIL will be cutting the grass, and the dog will lunge at his leg and bite. If he reaches down to pet the dog, the dog will lunge at his hand and bite him. BIL has never mistreated the dog.

I know what my sister has been through and its so frustrating. My heart goes out to you, and Richard.
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Miss Ellie will not do well with a heavy hand at all. She has come a long way and is redirecting aggression and fear. Lahree and hubby have done a lot of great work and will not give up now, I am sure!
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Dogs simply do NOT go around wondering who is the leader. They know we are as humans and they know we aren't dogs. Even the scientist behind the wolf pack dominance hierarchy David Mech has debunked his old, outdated theory. Dogs learn by what feels good, and what they get when reinforced. I hope one day she can find something that helps redirect Ellie, who sure is tough one to figure out :) I hope you can find another behaviorist maybe?

Susan Garrett from 'Ruff Love' says: "The permissive dog... often does what he wants. This is not the case with a good trainer who chooses to train in a positive way. If you cue the dog for a behavior, you must follow up on your request each and every time. Dogs will always do what is reinforcing to them. If you heavily reinforce good behavior... it is likely to be repeated... Be clear and consistent with your expectations... Always keep in mind that the rewards your dog receives from his environment can be more reinforcing than those you are delivering."
 
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Toffee's Mom said:
Miss Ellie will not do well with a heavy hand at all. She has come a long way and is redirecting aggression and fear. Lahree and hubby have done a lot of great work and will not give up now, I am sure!
.

Dogs simply do NOT go around wondering who is the leader. They know we are as humans and they know we aren't dogs. Even the scientist behind the wolf pack dominance hierarchy David Mech has debunked his old, outdated theory. Dogs learn by what feels good, and what they get when reinforced. I hope one day she can find something that helps redirect Ellie, who sure is tough one to figure out :) I hope you can find another behaviorist maybe?

Susan Garrett from 'Ruff Love' says: "The permissive dog... often does what he wants. This is not the case with a good trainer who chooses to train in a positive way. If you cue the dog for a behavior, you must follow up on your request each and every time. Dogs will always do what is reinforcing to them. If you heavily reinforce good behavior... it is likely to be repeated... Be clear and consistent with your expectations... Always keep in mind that the rewards your dog receives from his environment can be more reinforcing than those you are delivering."
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I have to agree, a heavy hand is the last thing that a fear aggressive, anxious dog needs. She's acting out because of stress, not because she's strong willed.

A very stressful event can take days for them to recover from. When a dog responds to a fight or flight situation, stress hormones will stay in their systems for days afterwards. When Toby is REALLY stressed, he carries on and takes my fingers off when he takes treats. Its likely that Ellie bit because of her extreme anxiety due to the tornado and the havoc it left. Poor Ellie's life has been turned up side down in her eyes and she's having difficulty dealing with it.

Maintaining her usual routine and not exposing her to any other stressful situations is key right now.
 
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Hind sight is 20-20 and I now can easily see that we simply pushed Ellie past her threshold. She communicated in the only way she felt she could and that was to bite. To have used a heavy hand then I think would have been a distaster. She was scared to death and we just did not realize it. Her mind just shut down and she reacted. She indeed ws acting out of stress and fear and not because she was stong-willed.

The whole "The Reactive Champion" blog has been such an eye-opener. I have red-eye from staying up late and reading it. I have ordered a DVD she recommended on dog body language.

I used to think medication for Ellie meant we were failures. I have now come completely away from that. I think to withold medication from her is cruel. Ellie's fear is makes her in a constant state of anxiety. It is not good for her health (lol or ours) to be that way. I want her to be happy. I think we have tried everything else.

Ellie is beloved here by both of us beyond measure. Although we both get frustrated wither her, she will NEVER go anywhere else. She will always be with us. She is a commitment. We will NEVER give up!
 
I do not think medicating your dog makes you a failure. I think it's quite the opposite. I think it makes you a wonderful furmom. You are trying to do everything possible to make Ellie comfortable and give her a normal life.

The majority of dog owners in your situation would've turned Ellie into a rescue. She is lucky to have you and I know you'll do everything you can to relieve her anxiety.
 
There is such a stigma against taking anxiety medications and antidepressants for both dogs and people, its such a shame. Yes, there are those who jump to medications too soon but its also necessary for some individuals to function normally.

The Reactive Champion blog was a big eye opener for me too. I'd been thinking that Toby may need to be medicated but I felt guilty and like a failure, especially since Toby's foster mom is adiment that he doesn't need it. The blog not only helped me with training ideas,it also made me stop doubting myself and realize that I was not failing Toby, that medicating him may be exactly what he needs to live a happy, normal life.

These poor dogs, how horrible it must be to be afraid and anxious all the time! How can we not medicate them when all else has failed?
 
I used to think Ellie was an alpha dog and "full of herself." Sadly, I totally misread her. This is not the case at all. She is a super-smart dog and I mean SUPER smart and just a very anxious/scared dog.

She has been trained with kindness and consistency. She lives a wonderful life with someone home with her 98% of the time. She goes for rides and walks and has playtime every single day. Everything we have done for her has been with the best intentions. I have never owned a insecure fear-agressive dog before, so with Ellie, I am a total novice dog owner.

"The Reactive Champion" has really made me realize that some things can not be overcome with good intentions and training. I think it is time for medication for Ellie so she can relax and allow her personality to shine. When she is at home and secure, she is a wonderful, smart, funny, playful, expressive, obedienent and extremely affectionate dog. Totally endearing. I hope with medication that Ellie can feel better when she is outside the home.
 
Lahree

I have my Beau, a Sheltie/Collie mix medicated because he is a very sensitive, fearful dog. He is much better than he was, but, he still has moments, like with thunderstorms, where he won't come out of hiding. Luckily, I know pretty much all of his triggers, for instance, I know he doesn't like off leash dogs, so, I have to put my foot down with a few owners at the dog park who insist on letting their off leash dogs come up to us.

At first, I felt guilty for medicating him, but, now I know it was the right thing, And look at it this way, if your baby had diabetes you would give him medicine right? But, use the medication in conjunction with behavior modification techniques
 
dblock said:
Lahree

I have my Beau, a Sheltie/Collie mix medicated because he is a very sensitive, fearful dog. He is much better than he was, but, he still has moments, like with thunderstorms, where he won't come out of hiding. Luckily, I know pretty much all of his triggers, for instance, I know he doesn't like off leash dogs, so, I have to put my foot down with a few owners at the dog park who insist on letting their off leash dogs come up to us.

At first, I felt guilty for medicating him, but, now I know it was the right thing, And look at it this way, if your baby had diabetes you would give him medicine right? But, use the medication in conjunction with behavior modification techniques
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Thank you for your post. I agree medication WITH behavior modification techniques. What medication is your dog on?
 
I have read significant amount of posts from Reactive champion blog. Some things I agree with some are questionable to me. I have noticed it really depends who are you talking to... behaviorists will want to know why or how and same as shrinks get into the situation, dog trainers function by the principle ... who cares why she is behaving this way, whether it is stress or sound/ motion fear... I have a problem presently, this is my take off point... this is where I want to be, everything in between is training...
I am more likely to believe that while puppies same as people are born with preset traits, some hyper and some laid back, most of behavioral stress/anxiety/ aggression is learned response and not chemical imbalance.
I do understand that sometimes it is very difficult to retrain learned response still it bothers me that meds are meant to treat chemical imbalance when in reality there is probably none so we still not addressing the cause just sugarcoating it. But it might be easier to build good choices once medication starts working and obviously make life easier for everyone involved...
 
SheltieChe said:
I have read significant amount of posts from Reactive champion blog. Some things I agree with some are questionable to me. I have noticed it really depends who are you talking to... behaviorists will want to know why or how and same as shrinks get into the situation, dog trainers function by the principle ... who cares why she is behaving this way, whether it is stress or sound/ motion fear... I have a problem presently, this is my take off point... this is where I want to be, everything in between is training...
I am more likely to believe that while puppies same as people are born with preset traits, some hyper and some laid back, most of behavioral stress/anxiety/ aggression is learned response and not chemical imbalance.
I do understand that sometimes it is very difficult to retrain learned response still it bothers me that meds are meant to treat chemical imbalance when in reality there is probably none so we still not addressing the cause just sugarcoating it. But it might be easier to build good choices once medication starts working and obviously make life easier for everyone involved...
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I can definitely see your point. There are so many ways of looking at this it makes my head spin. I have thought, obessed, dwelled, researched and soul-searched our journey with Ellie. In the end, I have to go with my gut. I feel like I have tried everything else. I simply do not know what else to do. If medication with help Ellie calm her fears and focus, I am for it. I will have to evaluate whether it even helps her.
 
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