Velcro dog training

This is definitely a mostly handler-focus drill. That's not to say that you and Koji shouldn't do it...but it shouldn't be all that you do. It's very important that if you work handler focus one day, you should work obstacle focus the next.

ABC is obstacle focus...this is where you can really get some work done. Teach Koji a go. That way if you are standing still, or peeling off, he still goes on.

Dogs aren't born with a natural tendency towards one or the other--they are made this way based on our training. Somewhere along the line you and I rewarded handler focus, or did more handler focus, or somehow encouraged handler focus, and not so much obstacle focus.

I think maybe I'm a little confused as to what your trainer is telling you to do. Maybe I'm not understanding correctly?
 
Velcro Dog

Everyone is giving good advice but I honestly think you need to find another trainer and go from there.Go somewhere and observe.Talk to the trainer and tell her/him what your problems are and what your goals are for your dog.Maybe some private lessons can help.
 
corbinam said:
This is definitely a mostly handler-focus drill. That's not to say that you and Koji shouldn't do it...but it shouldn't be all that you do. It's very important that if you work handler focus one day, you should work obstacle focus the next.

ABC is obstacle focus...this is where you can really get some work done. Teach Koji a go. That way if you are standing still, or peeling off, he still goes on.

Dogs aren't born with a natural tendency towards one or the other--they are made this way based on our training. Somewhere along the line you and I rewarded handler focus, or did more handler focus, or somehow encouraged handler focus, and not so much obstacle focus.

I think maybe I'm a little confused as to what your trainer is telling you to do. Maybe I'm not understanding correctly?
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I think you got it. It is handler focused. But for the past couple sessions (6-weeks each), I have come to realize we're doing mostly handler focused stuff. Some of it's great (like working on 270's, box work, etc), but some, like this, is where I don't understand why she wants me to pause, when for me, it's not needed. I think for me, she should've seen if Koji would just naturally follow me, and if so, great. Move on. OR, have me send him to jump C while I peel off so he learns obstacle focus. I guess, when I realize I've been questioning why I'm doing certain things, when Koji does it anyways...for the past how many months, I'm just concerned. Does that make sense?

As for us, I'm not sure how you learned....but I think with Greg's system of flatwork, it's very handler focused. Doing circle work and pole turns, it's all about the handler. Oh wait, we did do "obstacle focused" things, but alas, that was when Koji wasn't very toy motivated, so tossing a toy for him to get, he'd go after it, but then turn around half way and come back to me for food. So, even early on, obviously, we didn't find something he liked enough for him to go after.

I wish I knew about these back then. I think it would've worked better than a tossing a bait pouch cuz he saw it as a toy and was like, "eh, whatevers" even though there was food inside it: Food tubes

But mostly for flatwork, it was watching the handler and doing what they do (turn etc). I recall working on distance, but honestly, not a lot. It was more watch me stuff. Maybe a bit too heavily leaned that way? I also think him being a needy pup didn't help things.

Not sure what motivates Bentley, but now that I have all these great suggestions for dealing with a food motivated dog, I want to try and re-teach a lot of the things he didn't go for when I tossed my bait bag (tossing food didn't always work and I hate tossing it on grass cuz then he gets obsessed with thinking there's food in grass).

I can see all the places I could've done this or that and take a different approach. But since my trainers only kinda new bait bags and tugging, I didn't get a lot of help on "alternatives". Now I have alternatives. I have to see if they'll work.
 
Sharon said:
Everyone is giving good advice but I honestly think you need to find another trainer and go from there.Go somewhere and observe.Talk to the trainer and tell her/him what your problems are and what your goals are for your dog.Maybe some private lessons can help.
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I was thinking the same thing. I think I'll make an appt with my trainer and talk to her about class. Tomorrow is our last class before our winter break. We won't start up training again until January.

I know she doesn't have a set plan (like weekly plan), we kind of work on whatever we want. If I say I want to work on XYZ, then we'll work on it in someway. So it's good in that sense. But since we have different types of dogs, maybe I'm not asking and my friend is (whose dogs are obstacle focused). Hmm....I think I'll talk to her first. Because i hate to say it, but there aren't that many good agility trainers around and because I love their daycare/boarding facility, I don't want to burn any bridges either.
 
Having him stop if you stop isn't necessarily counterproductive when it comes to distance. Even when using distance... say running a fast or gamblers course, you should never just be standing still. There should always be some forward motion to support the distance. Motion should support motion. Stopping is a deceleration cue, and if your dog is continuing to go on despite you being at a standstill, the dog is incorrect. Teaching them it is okay to go on while you are stopped will bite you, as they will then not understand deceleration and acceleration cues correctly because what you are saying to them is that regardless of what you are doing, the dog should keep going. So, teaching them to stop or slow down when you stop is actually correct. There is a woman here who does a lot of butt handling, and likes to stand still while her dog works. The dog takes a lot of wrong courses, and goes on on his own as he doesn't understand deceleration. She gets really angry at the dog when in reality it is what she trained the dog to do.... go if she's moving forward, or go if she's decelerating or stopped. So, it is important to teach both forward motion and deceleration regardless of the dog.
That said, I would agree that you may need to look elsewhere for training, since your trainer is always wanting you to bring your dog in. When you have a handler focused dog who you are needing to get more obstacle focus on, you don't constantly want to be bringing the dog in. You want to teach them to work independently from you.
 
HopeShelties said:
That said, I would agree that you may need to look elsewhere for training, since your trainer is always wanting you to bring your dog in. When you have a handler focused dog who you are needing to get more obstacle focus on, you don't constantly want to be bringing the dog in. You want to teach them to work independently from you.
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I definitely agree on the stop when I stop thing. And Koji knows it well, and it comes in handy when I need to use it. And yup, that's why the "line" isn't my friend, and yes, I stop, that's why I'm horrible at distance, lol. And why I pull him right back to me. lol. I need someone to teach me, not only what cues to give my dog (for distance) but also to teach me the handling/moving aspect of it. I really want to take that distance class the other agility place I'm looking at offers. It'd be great for me.

I think I'll email her to set up a time I can either discuss this in person or on the phone. I want to give my trainer a chance, as she has been great. I just don't think she realizes how she's "hurting" me more than "helping". And maybe she just hasn't had to deal with a dog like mine, who knows. I know her dogs aren't like that at all. But eventually, she's going to have to realize that if you have different types of dogs in a class, you're going to have to have them do different things.

We're getting another member in our class. She and her dog will have finished the first foundation class when she comes in (in Jan). The trainer is going to adjust things for her......this will be a great time to adjust it for me. We also have the "disabled" (i hate calling her that) woman in our class, who she teaches Linda's system to, so she does things differently too. It'll be a good time for her to realize, she's also going to have to work with me differently as my dog needs different things too.
 
k9kreationz said:
I wish I knew about these back then. I think it would've worked better than a tossing a bait pouch cuz he saw it as a toy and was like, "eh, whatevers" even though there was food inside it: Food tubes
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I have one and they are NOT that great. They do actually break open if you toss it a certain way - trust me I am speaking from experience! You try to pick up all the tiny treats that are hidded all over the grass! I had to tape it shut.
 
Ania said:
I have one and they are NOT that great. They do actually break open if you toss it a certain way - trust me I am speaking from experience! You try to pick up all the tiny treats that are hidded all over the grass! I had to tape it shut.
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I was just going to post the same thing! It busted open all the time!
 
I have very confident dog and also very obstacle oriented, though I have no idea how we got there.... yep, my problem is opposite of yours I need my boy to stop and check in with me and it is not any easier to teach:cry:
he will take any obstacle in his view.... about 4 jumps in a row before he notices that I stopped :no: Che is also fast so I feel I HAVE to teach him distance and RC , I am behind him most of the time anyway...
I hear you about having a trainer reading YOUR needs and making adjustments to your team...
Tomorrow I am going to start with new trainer, big name trainer, trainer of the trainers... what was I thinking when I asked to be signed in her class ... I already have one experience when beginner agility class trainer drove me to tears...:sadsmile:
 
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